Get Curious - People Pleasing (Part 1) | 011

Nicole Lohse: 00:00:00

So it turns out people pleasing is quite the common survival pattern. And I had a number of people reach out to me to be on this get curious episode where we're exploring our patterns around people pleasing. So I've decided to do two episodes of get curious about your people pleasing pattern. So this is part one of two, I have four lovely human beings join me, Dre, Karina, Diddy, and Paola. And what was really fun about this episode is how differently they all people pleased. So I encourage you to listen along and see where it is that you can relate to each of them, and see what it is you can uncover about your own survival patterns that revolve around people pleasing, and see where your own explorations take you. If you need some extra support, be sure to download the experiential guide. It's in the show notes, it's on my website, and see what it's like to implement the principles of pausing and noticing your experiences, deepening your awareness of what's happening, and bringing curiosity into what's at the core of these patterns, to recognize what else is also possible, while also recognizing when you're trying to fix things, when you're caught in always directing yourself and coming from a top down approach. How can you start to weave in more bottom up explorations? Recognizing that there isn't anything to fix you're already whole, and the more that you pan out, and recognize that you're a whole sovereign being while also having complex and many patterns involved in being a human, that the more you show up from that place of wholeness to explore the ways you are stuck in survival, the easier the explorations become. And the easier things start to shift and transform. So, download the experiential guide, listen along, see where it all takes you. And stay tuned for Episode Two, where I'll bring on a few more people pleasers. And you can hear even more different perspectives on how it is that we can shift out of these people pleasing patterns that we find ourselves in, enjoy the episode. So I'm first off excited to have you all here. Because I actually know all of you. My whole intention with these get curious calls is to invite random people on and you know, with the randomness of people, I don't know their nervous systems, as well as I might know some of yours. And not that I know your nervous systems that well, because I do my best because I'm so sensitive to what I notice to not pay attention to what's playing out in the deeper layers of people's human experiences. Because I'm not invited to. As soon as I'm invited in, it's like cool game on. Let's see, what can what do we got going on here. Let's have some fun with this. So I'm really excited to have the four of you here. And what I'm noticing in that as I'm filming myself leaning forward and wanting to connect with you all, my face is smiling a fair amount and the level of the excitement. I'm also aware of like, there's a really sick RV outside my window that's very similar to mine. But it looks like they've done some really incredible work on it. And I'm like, keep my eyes keep getting drawn to it. And like oh, what is that Ooh, is that they've got this big bubble dome on top. And like, what, what's that? So in this moment, that's what I'm noticing. And I just want to invite all of us here on the call, as well as everyone who's listening to also just pause and notice what it is you're experiencing. So I'll invite my amazing four guests here that are willing to explore with me today in this get curious episode to share. Yeah, names where you're from and anything in this moment that you're aware of.

Dre: 00:04:09

I can go first. Yeah. My name is Dre and I live in DC. And yeah, I feel like a nice calm and anticipation about the call, which is lovely. And up until recently have been feeling quite freeze stuck. And so it's really nice to be just having an open conversation about nervous system things and yeah, about

Nicole Lohse: 00:04:35

the human experience. This is once you start having these conversations, it gets harder to have the mundane surface level conversations. Thanks, Dre. Well, I

Dede: 00:04:47

can go next the Tofino deal here My name is Dede I'm sitting on the call from Tofino British Columbia. I just came back from walking chesterman Beach in this summer moment I feel slightly overwhelmed. physically tired, mentally tired, and also grateful for many things in so curious and seeing how this conversation unfolds. Thanks,

Nicole Lohse: 00:05:21

dede. If you're open to it, can you describe how you know you're overwhelmed? Because I find that something I like to do when we notice like, I'm excited. How did I know? I was excited, right? For me, there's this leaning forward, a smile on my face. I didn't name it, but there's a little increase in my heartbeat. Anything you want to name around how you notice you're overwhelmed.

Dede: 00:05:44

Sure. Um, so for me today, it presents as heartbeat feels faster and headache. Lots of mental stuff has happened today for me. And yeah, in my heart center in brain, I suppose is where I feel that in my body and busyness there. Yeah. And I can see myself holding my head earlier.

Nicole Lohse: 00:06:14

Yeah. Good catch. Thanks, Dede.

Paula: 00:06:19

I can go. I'm Paula I'm from Spain. I live in Bali right now. And yeah, I had an accident recently. And I've had a I'm in the middle of a long recovery process. So I'm feeling all sorts of emotions and all sorts of things in my body, but then also the minute that I switch the screen off, and I see you in a cold because we've worked together before. It's like everything kind of calms down and soothes and which is really nice.

Nicole Lohse: 00:06:47

Nice. Thanks, Paula.

Karina: 00:06:50

I'm Karina, I live on Galleon island in British Columbia. And I'm feeling super nervous. I hate zoom calls. I can really feel it in my heart. I'm here though, because I'm feeling stuck in patterns that I would like to try to shift. I think my people pleasing has started to affect my work. And

Unknown: 00:07:15

I don't want that.

Nicole Lohse: 00:07:19

Yeah. Do you want to feed us into kind of sharing a little bit about your people pleasing patterns? Like, how do you catch yourself people pleasing? How is it impacting your work? And we'll just all go around and share a little bit of that.

Karina: 00:07:33

I'm feeling like, I care way too much. It's always it's always about the other person, not about me. Yeah, get super stressed. Because I just want everything to be perfect. I want everyone to be happy. And it's not possible to be perfection. When I go into overwhelm, and yeah, it's not helpful

Nicole Lohse: 00:07:56

to everywhere, especially at work, but this wanting everything to be perfect running everyone else to be happy. And the toll is it creates a lot of stress on your system and creates a lot of overwhelm. Yeah, and you want it to be different. Yes. Yeah. Cool. Thanks, Karina.

Dre: 00:08:15

I can continue on that thread of wanting little fraction. NISM thing is definitely part of it. But there's this element that I think is interesting that I feel like really uncomfortable with negative feedback, like, not professionally, but like, when, you know, you go out for dinner and someone's like, that place who's really terrible. I'm like,

Nicole Lohse: 00:08:39

it's like, negative feedback is ugly. Can't

Dre: 00:08:42

like i It makes me super uncomfortable when people express negative opinions, even when they don't relate to me at all. Sounds like oh, I didn't like that. I'm like, Oh, okay. And I feel super. Yeah, like, always being kind of aware and trying to keep things like smooth sailing, which is definitely the way that I would say, people pleasing comes up for me. But then there's an interesting element that I don't like in work settings. For example, when I feel like I'm being overloaded or like, you know, ask something unreasonable. I have absolutely no problem being like, No, I can't do that for you today. I'm like, almost happy to be like, ducks. But yeah, when it comes to like, people expressing Yeah, like, yeah, negative, negative opinions. I like it.

Nicole Lohse: 00:09:38

So these negative opinions and then also in the social circles, trying to keep everything smooth, maybe the family dynamics friend dynamics, things like that. It's not so much at work. Yes. Real. Yeah, it might like I or it might show up at work, but if someone asks you to do something, that's when the boundaries are like, No, I've I have the right to say no. Yeah,

Dre: 00:10:01

exactly. Yeah, I like it.

Nicole Lohse: 00:10:08

Awesome. Thanks, Trey.

Paula: 00:10:09

It's funny how it presents a little bit differently for everyone. Because for me, I'm not. I'm not a perfectionist in any way, like at all. It's the way my people pleasing manifests as a. Since I was like the youngest, I can remember, I always felt responsible for everyone around me, not everyone around me, everyone in the whole world being happy. And like every single problem there is and solving everything and which is a lot in, which is something that you can't do it as a child. So it's not so much that I have to be perfect is that if someone else is sad, it's my fault, because I haven't, I'm not enough or I can't do enough for them. Which is really crippling. And the worst thing is, I remember working within a call that I because I just always thought I'm a nice person, because I care so much. That's just my personality. I'm lovely. And, and it was a little bit was eye opening, and also a little bit kind of devastating to find out. I mean, it's a personality. It's also a trip like just patterns and its triggers and it's not necessarily healthy. So then I did have a moment of thinking like, who am I if I take this away, because this is my whole personality, like caring about Absolutely. Every single conflict in the world, every single person, everything around me so much.

Karina: 00:11:26

Love it. That's a lot of work to Hey.

Nicole Lohse: 00:11:31

Yeah, like a lot to hold. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, Paula. I want to

Dede: 00:11:38

come back to Andres comment, because I'm like that person and the restaurant, I'd be like, no, that's just no. But I want to look at through a lens of that I care so much like I give so much back in my life, that if like, for instance, last week, I was in a very beautiful rated five star restaurant in qualicum. Beach was really excited about this whole experience. anticipated. Over and over and yeah, I was sort of like, No, I would have been like your worst date. No, condensating way, like just simply like, in and I had, yeah, just simply like, well, that's kind of not good enough, like, and not even in a judgmental way, just in a way where I had invested a lot of time in researching this place. That was my thoughts. I was so excited. The reviews are so good. It was date night with my husband and and then I had to look at myself because like in reality, it was like really good. But what was it that made me was like, no, that's just not going to cut it on that very evening. And there was many layers within myself that was going on that evening. In truly probably not much to do with the experience itself. And how for me when I do something I care so deeply and I do it with like the core of my being that when it's not loose, like first of all, it was just like yeah, we should probably not go together.

Dre: 00:13:36

It might be helpful. Yeah,

Dede: 00:13:41

yeah. Interesting. Anyhow.

Nicole Lohse: 00:13:43

So DD, there's this like, you care so much, you put so much effort into making things perfect or wanting things to be to the highest standard possible. So when you go somewhere and expect that and it's not met, that's when the disappointment and the frustration and the anger arises. Right? It's like, is that what I'm hearing is you put you put so much care in so when it's not put into what you're receiving? Right? That's when that's when Yeah, things get spoken to.

Dede: 00:14:15

Yeah, and I didn't necessarily share that with the people over there because they were lovely, and the intention wasn't for anybody to feel my big feelings around the experience, but it was a curious thing for me to be sitting there and just kinda like having multiple layers of experience around just regular dinner really? Like

Nicole Lohse: 00:14:39

yeah, isn't it so fun when we get to pause and notice our experiences?

Dede: 00:14:46

And you know, my husband is he's probably more like dripping like, please don't just share what she has on her mind yet again. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:15:02

And my guess is the more you put in to wanting things to be perfect, and you know, really wanting other people to have a good time or, you know, go 100% The more frustrated and the more you want to speak out when someone else hasn't. Oh,

Dede: 00:15:18

absolutely. Then me a little link to next day, how was your experience? And you know, like,

Nicole Lohse: 00:15:24

and the water really here.

Dede: 00:15:29

I just like put the stars as they were asking. And essentially, I was like, Well, surely they're gonna like ask why, like, this Pacific star was like, three and not five. And then they didn't do that. And, you know, interesting sort of, yeah. Anyway.

Nicole Lohse: 00:15:47

There's a good, good pattern that unfolds there for you to explore. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. So what I want to invite people listening to inquire into is the same thing like, what, what is your pattern around people pleasing? Because we just heard four examples that are, you know, there's some similarities, but there's also a lot of differences in how we all people, please I know, for me, I only recently really discovered that I people, please, I was like, but my people pleasing comes in the easygoing Enos of like, I'll do whatever, like, I'm so easygoing, and nothing, you know, nothing bothers me. It's fine. Like, oh, that's my version of people pleasing that I didn't even know as people pleasing, because I thought it was just me being pretty casual and pretty easygoing. And the more I'm realizing that layer, the more I'm like, oh, right, the more I have an opinion, or the more that I have needs and wants, then I actually have to be in conflict with it. And that's a whole nother ballgame in itself. So there's a whole nother people pleasing piece that we can dive into. So what I want to invite us to do next is I see all of our patterns is a way we shift into this way of being in the world, right? So it's not like we're this quality of people pleasing all the time, whatever our patterns are, we shift into it, depending on the environment, if, depending on what's going on, we know when that's this part of us is needed. And then we shift into it. Right? For some of you, you may live in that a fair amount of the time. But sometimes it's louder. Sometimes it's just like, who like Karina said, right? Like, who am I, if I'm not this, right, so it, it starts to become an even more of a interesting and tangled journey into like, oh, what happens if I'm not this pattern, but what I'd love to do next is like, inquire into how we know we're in the pattern. And this is where I like to bring in the awareness of our human experience. Because the more we can sense we're entering into the pattern, the more we realize that something in our environment is sent off the alarm bells, to indicate there some sort of perceived threat and some sort of reason why I should move into my people pleasing, mad skills that I have, right? So we're going to inquire into like, how, how do you know you're in that state? Or how do you experience yourself in that state? So for me, like when I even described my, I'm easygoing, I'm fine, right? I feel this like fluidity. I feel this airiness. It feels really casual. And like my face lights up a little, but I feel disconnected from my body. Right? I kind of feel like a little bit of a void below me. But I feel this like, yeah, my hands want to flow around. Right? I'm just like, whatever. It's no big deal. Whatever. Yeah, that so that's how I'm noticing myself in that there's this kind of floatiness and airiness, a disconnect from my body slightly. And, as I'm pausing and noticing it is starting to change. So I won't go into that. But I'll get the four of you to describe a little bit and just pick one of your patterns. You know, we all named like little flavors. So if you want to stick to what you shared, if you want to bring in something else, you can never

Paula: 00:19:17

make it you say that what makes you special and for me, it's being around people. So it's literally like act like they don't have to do anything. I just have to they have to be human and posts or on Zoom i i noticed myself and I because I go to notice before like I noticed I was talking with other people and we have the cameras on I'm always aware of when someone's talking. What is my face doing? Is it am I being supportive? And is it visible? So am I smiling further and when it's not? Which is really distracting. It's not about my experience, which I guess is how I noticed that I'm in that mode, which is always that it's less about my experience. It's about how other people are experiencing me so

Nicole Lohse: 00:19:59

when you're not around people, you're something different. Yes,

Paula: 00:20:03

I just feel a lot more relaxed and, and it's like in my body and everything is a lot calmer. I'm just, I'm living my own experience, I'm feeling everything that I'm feeling when I'm with other people. I tend to be feeling what they are feeling.

Nicole Lohse: 00:20:25

But that makes sense. So yeah, totally. And what I what I am aware of in that is the shift, the quick shift that happens. And I want to point that out in case anyone else can relate. It's like when you're on your own, you feel like you can just be yourself, you can be with your own experiences, you have the sense of spaciousness, a sense of self. And then as soon as someone else is in the room, or soon as you enter the Zoom call, it's just like, quickly into the other thing, where there's some hyper vigilance, some awareness of like, how is everyone else responding to me? How do I have to look? So there's a change in you know, how you're smiling, how you're behaving? Probably also worrying about what you're gonna say that can probably show up, I'm guessing. Right? So there's this kind of like, shift you make into not only picking up on what everyone else is feeling, but also adapting how you need to be relative to who how everyone's feeling in the room, or how you're perceiving them to be feeling

Paula: 00:21:24

exactly that and even something as simple as texting or being on a phone call. Like, they don't even have Oh, having someone in the same house. I'm aware of making noise and things like that. And it is a shift, and it gets a lot more attention.

Nicole Lohse: 00:21:38

Yep. So I want to just invite Can anyone else relate to this? That's on the call? Yeah, absolutely.

Karina: 00:21:43

Got me.

Nicole Lohse: 00:21:47

Okay. So what I want to do is, I want to just pause with this for us to explore just slightly because this whole sense of like, what are we experiencing, there's some really obvious things we can pick up on. And then there's some more subtler things we want to pick we can pick up on so I want to pause to invite us to be aware of the physiology. So the physiology meet, meaning this change we make from being more connected, feeling safe to like, ooh, something's dangerous, and all of a sudden, my physiology changes. So um, feel free any of you to pipe in here. When you notice that shift like okay, I'm by myself versus I'm texting or amount of phone caller, I step into a zoom call or someone comes over someone's just in the house or I'm with a group of people, whatever it is, what happens in your body that really shows you that you're in this different state? Flooding, sweating, sweating. Yeah, get on it.

Karina: 00:22:46

Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:22:47

So the sweat comes dripping in. Yeah.

Karina: 00:22:52

I agree with that. And I also feel a rigidity.

Nicole Lohse: 00:22:57

Yeah, so spine gets a little more rigid and muscle tone probably becomes a little more bonafide. Ready. Yeah.

Paula: 00:23:06

My shoulders go up, and then my chest kind of senses like that.

Unknown: 00:23:09

Right?

Nicole Lohse: 00:23:12

Yeah, that chest piece. Anyone notice anything in their eyes? This is something I'm often drawn to and people. There's a shift in the eyes. That happens. Anyone got anything there?

Dede: 00:23:23

I think that I would visually show signs in my eyes, but I'm not sure I can. Yeah, there's this Yeah, no, no, that you're mentioning it even in others just as sort of like, easy Nith or I or disconnection versus I per connection I suppose.

Nicole Lohse: 00:23:49

Call so it's kind of like it goes a bit blurry kind of are losing focus, there's a little more than those that like the nervous system words, dorsal tone, online, things are kind of shutting down a little. Some people might also notice a hyper vigilance or the eyes kind of become a little more alert, and then are like looking around a lot more. That's something that we can pick up on too. Cool.

Paula: 00:24:14

I mean, just when you said that I have some like Joe gets trends as well. Just when you said about the eyes. I thought about them and everything relaxed. I don't know if it's the eyes are like this, just the face like all around it. So I am holding some kind of tension there. Because the minute I'm conscious of it, it just loosened.

Nicole Lohse: 00:24:32

So something happens, but by bringing attention to it, it softens. Yeah. So it's this is why I find it so interesting to pay attention to more of the human experience, because you know, we can be quite familiar with our patterns. But the more we recognize what's happening at a physiological level and the shifts that our nervous system is making relative to the perceived threat in the room. We get to work with it in a very different way than something that's more top down, I'm aware of my patterns. And I'm trying not to do it or I'm trying to do something different. So that's what we're going to explore a little bit more here is like, how do we understand more of what's happening is the whole human experience. Sometimes we want to direct ourselves and come more top down. Other times, we want to explore more like what's actually happening here that we can support to move ourselves through whatever it is we're stuck in, in this perceived entanglement with humans equal threat, right? I have I better than people, please. Alright, so that was Pablos example of how she notices herself. And obviously, we've all got some similarities there. Anyone else want to share? How you notice yourself shift into your pattern? Or what's present or louder when you're in your patterns?

Dre: 00:25:51

I guess I feel like a little bit like, anxious when I'm either hearing someone share something that's not necessarily positive, or I'm like reading a room and trying to make sure everyone seems content where it's kind of like, oh, like, How can I fix it almost. Or, like, if it's too much, and someone's already, like, sharing something super negative, then I'm just like, all shut down. It's like, somewhere between this like, anxious, like, flighty feeling, which I'm sure people are like, just and just fully being like, don't

Nicole Lohse: 00:26:28

do anything now. Just down. I'd

Dre: 00:26:29

like to vaporize. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:26:31

I'm not involved in this party. I

Nicole Lohse: 00:26:33

don't know, though. Yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 00:26:39

so what I heard in what you're explaining, Dre is like the unfolding of the pattern. And I really enjoy looking at how patterns unfold. Because it allows us to see kind of the different layers that are involved. So the end result is like, I just want to, you know, fade away and just let me dissolve. Thank you very much. But there's things that happened before that, that really are involved in this process of people pleasing. So you expressed to start there's this someone says something and you move into the anxiousness. Right. How do you notice yourself in the anxiousness? What's that first transition you make?

Dre: 00:27:24

Like in my body, or like anything?

Nicole Lohse: 00:27:26

Yeah. How do you know, like, everything's good. And, you know, we're having a great time and something's off.

Karina: 00:27:33

Yeah,

Dre: 00:27:34

I kind of feel like, I wonder if it's almost like, you can't, can't do that, like, almost like this. Kind of, like, caught off guard, like, you know, like, you know, how dare you show negative, like, very bearish or any of your opinion, realistically, but I think part of me is like, Oh, is this allowed? And so it makes me like, feel like, a little bit, like a second guess. And then I'm kind of like, racing thoughts a little bit, almost like looking for an exit, but just being kind of like, maybe we can talk a mess. Maybe we can make it better? Like, how can we still didn't know or like, even about me while at

Nicole Lohse: 00:28:17

the time, but need to calm the waters. Thank you. So I think that's a really important piece that that more those that earlier stage of like, oh, wait, you're allowed to say something negative. Wait a minute, this is okay. Right. That's where something's entangled, where it's like, it's not okay to express yourself. So that's almost, I don't know if this feels accurate, but like a shock or a startle, or confusion, and then into the worrying the thoughts, how do I fix it, you know, calm the waters as much as you can, and then I can't So then I'm going to dissolve and just fade out fade away. Thank you very much. Right. So it starts with probably, again, feel free to correct me or feel free to pipe in something else, but it probably starts with like, a confusion or a startle or like a little love. And then it's like that but wait, that's not okay. And then off we go down download pattern pap.

Dre: 00:29:14

Yeah, like I don't feel like I have very good poker face. And I feel like there's probably been times where I'm like, like, Oh, no.

Karina: 00:29:24

You did that? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, no. Yeah.

Dre: 00:29:28

But when I think about it, it often there is, I think an element of like, I think maybe Paulo was talking about this, where it's like everyone else is me, or feelings are kind of taking a hierarchy. And it's like, having needs at all is almost like the thing that offends me because I don't feel like that's appropriate. And so when other people do, I'm like, Well, why

Nicole Lohse: 00:29:52

don't you know beating Ed is inappropriate. You gotta cut that out. Everything's fine. Keep the one. Yeah, literally. really buying.

Dre: 00:30:00

But when I think about it, it's like, like, I remember I had like a landlord one time who was like, you can't have an air conditioner. This is like in Toronto where it gets hot. And I'm like, okay, and I got like a dehumidifier and she yelled at me on the phone. She was like, the reason you couldn't have one is because of the power but like, whatever. And I cried, like, you know, and I'm like, this is basically a slumlord. This place was like, a horrible, you know, and I have a friend who is a people pleaser, in a lot of ways. But she's like, you know, renting a place for six months. And she's like, this life extra has to go that like the lifespan is atrocious. And I'm

Nicole Lohse: 00:30:34

like, we don't ask for those things you're being

Dre: 00:30:37

asked to putting on doing.

Nicole Lohse: 00:30:41

Don't express your needs. DD is like, what do you mean, fight for your needs?

Dede: 00:30:48

Sir, of all really, I mean, yeah, yeah, I see both. Both sides, I suppose. Yeah, cuz I'm a people pleaser. And I'm also I guess, I would hope to receive the same amount of care that I put out in the world. And it's not always the case, either in my relationship, or my relationship with my children, or my tenants or so on and so forth. Right? There's many layers of like, there are times where it's like, Yeah, girl, I go out dare to express your needs big time and others is like, no, no. Sure. You know, yeah, sure. It'd

Nicole Lohse: 00:31:31

be interesting to look at, like, where's it okay to ask for your needs or express that? And when is it okay, for? Or when is it not? Okay. Right. But there's probably some layers there.

Dede: 00:31:42

Yeah, it's kind of never been okay. Because it's like, it stems from childhood where the needs are met. And now isn't that that's been people pleasing? It's hard to, it's hard to change that pattern. So there is like, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:32:01

Instead, because asking for the needs is a lot more challenging from a developmental perspective needs not being met, you then learned how to meet everyone else's needs the best that they could, in hopes that it would be returned. So that's kind of that's the pattern that developed right.

Dede: 00:32:22

realizing now that actually, unless you ask about that light fixture or whatever, like those assertive ask, people can't read your mind, and it's just not going to be met unless you have that ability to be assertive in your needs, I suppose. But as a people, please. Sure. No, it's all good. Yeah. And then until it's not, the build

Karina: 00:32:50

up is real.

Dede: 00:32:52

The build up is real. Yes, ma'am. Well,

Nicole Lohse: 00:32:56

I love that you name name, there's a few things I want to speak to hear. One being like, you know, now as the adults, like, you have to ask for what your needs are, because people can't mind read people don't know what you actually need. So you know, like, No, I have to advocate. I have to take action I have to ask, but I want to name that that's a different part of you. There's a part of you that has learned to do that. But the part of you whose needs never were met, still probably is scared shitless about having its needs met or asking for something? Oh,

Dede: 00:33:34

absolutely. Not having Yeah, it's not. It's scared. It's just a really uncomfortable, because survival patterns were like, Well, I'm here because I have relied on very survival patterns that were not inclusive of asking to be helped. Exactly. In for how can look very messy, or can look completely. Or it just doesn't happen, actually. You have.

Nicole Lohse: 00:34:07

And the reason why I wanted to point that out is because this is like top down. This is like I like to point out the difference top down, bottom up, right? Top down, I can be like, No, I have to learn how to ask for what I need. So I'm gonna practice asking for what I need, even though it's messy, even though it's uncomfortable, I'm gonna do it. So I'm making the conscious choice to ask for what I need. Right? But the part of you that never had its needs met, doesn't even know how to receive those and be held in those needs. So it's kind of like we're working with these underlying tones that never were met. Right? And, and we want to learn how to like hold and be the empathic witness for the parts of us that never were met in the ways we expected to be met, right and any grief that may be showing up around that While also noticing these other brilliant survival patterns we've adapted to, like, try to make it be different. So I would name that because I find it so important to Yeah, practice these things that help us change the way we show up in the world. But we also have to go to the core pieces that are stuck in time, having never had the needs met in the first place and these very early developmental years. Right. Yeah. And that's so so important.

Dede: 00:35:27

Yeah, try to see with a 41 or 45 year old child, you know, it's, that's the endeavor. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole Lohse: 00:35:38

So Didi, I want to just for a moment ask you to speak a little to how, when you're in this quality of like, make everything the best that it can for everyone else? How do you notice yourself in that,

Dede: 00:35:53

while I'm at it, I'm like the hostess with the most as though that it is to cater to people's emotional needs or food needs, or hostessing needs, or yoga classes need or retreat needs, I've been become excellent at it. So it's a bit of an act at times where it's just like, you know, it's like an actress going to work. There's the part of the actress that is self and then the role that they have to play. And so it can feel like that at times.

Nicole Lohse: 00:36:32

Are you aware of how your physiology changes in that, like how you move through the room? Do you feel like you? Yeah, I won't put any words to it. I'll let you describe it. When

Dede: 00:36:43

I am meeting people's needs, or when

Nicole Lohse: 00:36:46

you're in the hostess with the mostess

Dede: 00:36:49

that host this demo says she is good man. You know, it's a it's a dance that has been dance for many decades, and it was really comfortable. But it's fluid, it's easy. It's it's, you know, it's it is what it is on tune. It's just like, there's that crash, where it's like, Can't this is not sustainable, long term, you know, unless are supported or asking for help or being able to voice that, you know, perhaps you are needing support.

Nicole Lohse: 00:37:27

If I were if I were to act out DD as the hostess with the mostess, how would my body move through space? How would I look? How would my face

Karina: 00:37:40

be? Even

Dede: 00:37:41

before? Yeah, sure. Have.

Nicole Lohse: 00:37:45

You just say, again, I want to paint and you can answer this or not. But I want to paint the picture for people because this again, I want to really emphasize how we can bring more awareness to the human experience, right? So you know what it looks like, you know what it feels like, but to articulate that, so that if someone were listening, they they could have a picture of you moving through space as the hostess with the mostess

Dede: 00:38:12

Oh, you know, it's very fluid. It's very gracious, it's it's very, you know, I curated and put together until the door closes, and then it's not right. So, yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 00:38:26

just because I'm sure a few people could probably relate to that, like a

Dede: 00:38:31

fish, you know. Yeah. And

Nicole Lohse: 00:38:34

there's the contrast again, of like, what it looks like in this fluidity, right. And in this performance, really, and then when the door closes, how everything changes, your body changes, your moods changes, your emotions change, the physical tone, and your body and your muscles change, like everything changes. Again, these contrasts we make when we're moving in and out of these patterns we find ourselves in

Dede: 00:38:58

and so rarely to that would be like a pretty big shutdown. You know, do you have a crash? Your crash laying or is it are lots of blankets, lots of support lots of warm lots of you know, and then need like that if it's not met by other people, then it has to be met with some kind of like, feeling of support somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thanks, daddy. Yeah, thank you,

Nicole Lohse: 00:39:31

Karina. Anything you want to share about everything being perfect? Or any other people pleasing or quality?

Karina: 00:39:41

Well, it's starting to reach a point I'm noticing at work that it's I'm just getting frustrated and angry all the time. Because I'm not good enough. Other people aren't good enough. Sort of what DD was saying is like, I try really hard I give everything Why do other people not care or not give same bad stats, it's really starting to come out in anger. Which is frustrating. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:40:12

Are you still doing all the things that you feel like you should do? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's like you're still in the pattern of like, making sure everything's perfect and making sure everyone's got what they need so that they're okay. But now there's the anger and the resentment, and the real realization of how much you put out and you're not being met. In return.

Karina: 00:40:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Unknown: 00:40:38

Yah, oh, the

Nicole Lohse: 00:40:40

fun, the fondness of being over people pleasing. Anything else you want to name to that? It's,

Karina: 00:40:50

I have noticed a few times where when I can let myself just not care. And just sort of pause and notice and or like, at least pause, and sort of think, well, it's okay. I'm just serving coffee and food, like, what does this really matter? And, you know, in the big scheme of things, that I'm okay, and then I'm calm, and I don't go into overwhelm. But it's it's hard to get to, it's hard to get to that life. Yeah, hard to let go of the people pleasing. But you're getting little glimpses?

Nicole Lohse: 00:41:22

Yeah. Oh, I like it. Okay, so that's, we're gonna go there a little bit more today. So hopefully, there'll be even more insight into what can can happen. And also, how do we support ourselves in these explorations around our people pleasing patterns, right? Especially when we get to this place of overwhelm where we're, it's just like enough is enough, currently. And I'm feeling the anger and feeling the frustration and like, what, what simple things can we do to create more space around these people pleasing patterns? So I want to move into a little exploration bring in some curiosity into like, there's a few questions I'll will weave in here. But first, just even thinking of your pattern of people pleasing. We can inquire into what is this pattern afraid would happen? So what? When you're in this pattern that you find yourself in? What is it afraid will happen? If it's not there?

Karina: 00:42:26

I was just gonna say, I'm so scared

Karina: 00:42:28

that people aren't gonna like me. That's that's the like, yeah,

Karina: 00:42:32

I don't feel good enough. I'm scared. They'll see me in that way. And not and not like me. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:42:37

So there's another somatic experience to that, right. There's like, Okay, if I keep the keep everyone happy, and I'm on and I'm doing other things. And although it's exhausting, I'm just like, on doing doing doing always moving, always taking care of, right. If I'm not doing that, I'm then at the risk of not being like, and are you open to just describing what that might feel like if you weren't liked?

Karina: 00:43:05

Was my brain is going to not knowing, not knowing what I like or what I want? Or sorry, I know, that's not super related. That's where my brain went. No,

Nicole Lohse: 00:43:18

I think that's important. Because I can relate to that. It's like back to the needs. Like if we can meet everyone else's needs, then everyone's okay. But actually, what are my needs? I don't even know what my needs are. Yeah, right. So it does make sense. It's like, oh, okay, first, I'm afraid people aren't gonna like me. But then also, I don't even know who I am in the state and like, what are my needs? So there's almost like a loss of identity. Are people going to like me? What will? Yeah, who am I? Again? That piece? Right? So, so the reason why I'm inviting us to inquire into this. And we can do it in a few different ways. I'm asking the question, first of like, what what's this part of us that moves into people pleasing? What is it afraid will happen? If it's not there, and by noticing that, we're then getting more insight into what's at the core of why we do what we do. So this is the trauma, this is of the burdens, we carry the bliss, we are entangled in, right? The parts of us that have been exiled live within this place. So we have these brilliant patterns, because we don't want to feel the things that are at the core of it. So for you, Karina, it's a state of like, well, I won't be like, but also like, the loss of identity. I don't even know who I am. How do I even meet myself? Right. And is there anything you want to add to how you experience yourself in that place of like, not even knowing your needs? Does it feel discombobulating? Is it Do you feel? Dizzy Yeah, I

Karina: 00:44:53

notice. I feel not here at all. It's yeah, it's very discombobulating. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:44:58

So In a way, the by people pleasing you get to avoid feeling this discombobulation not all here. It's overwhelming. I want to dissociate, right? So I find this is so important to map out because then it makes sense that you do what you do. Right? It makes sense that the pattern is there to support you to not feel it's the discombobulating kind of not all here in the fear of are people going to like me? And what what is this? Who is this even? Right? So there's an edge that you're hovering at right now, where it's like, it could be too much. But you're also like, right, right in this place where you can just pause and be in this experience. Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah. So this is, I want to while you're kind of hanging out in that just describe this as like, I love finding these types of edges, because it's at this edge, where we're working more with what's happening within the physiology. It's finding this place where it's somewhat scary and to slightly intense, but not too intense that I fully float away or and dissociate or disconnect or do whatever, there's many options, what we might do. We get to be in that level of discomfort enough where we actually move through it. Right? Can you feel how that's happening right now, there's

Karina: 00:46:22

a little event that yeah, yes, Leslie wasn't making that up? Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:46:26

So I call this riding a wave where we find the edge where there's a slight discomfort, and we move we stay there, we're just hanging out in this experience that's uncomfortable. We're not trying to fix it. We're not trying to top down direct or make something happen. We're just in the vulnerability of the scary thing. And we're not all the way in the depths of the scary thing of like, people aren't gonna like you, and who are you, but, you know, we're peeling through, you're moving through a layer to land more in yourself. And back into your sense of wholeness. So can you feel how you're back with us a little bit more? Oh, and those listening or those of you that are here, can you have something happened? And Karina, anything you want to reflect?

Dre: 00:47:13

I feel like she's

Dre: 00:47:14

looking at the camera a little bit more, like couldn't be more engaged in like seeing herself? Maybe? I don't know,

Unknown: 00:47:22

huh?

Nicole Lohse: 00:47:25

Yeah. And to me, this, the muscle tone in her face look softer, there's more of a flush SNESs. Um, the breathing has settled a little bit, or talking about it or again, so she might move back into a little bit activation. This is the joys for me when I because I can feel people's systems so easily. So like, Oh, there she goes, she's moving back into some activation again. So we'll redirect somewhere else. But, you know, this is what we're looking for. It's so subtle. And all we did was we just pause to be in the experience, right of what's underneath the survival pattern. And just to give ourselves a tiny bit of space to be in that edge of discomfort, we move through it. And that's actually creating a change at the cellular level. And sometimes it can be hard to tell, but it might be Karina that you have more of a shift in how you feel towards yourself or a recognition of how you are moving through the world and this pattern or, you know, something just feels different. And this is where this is why I love this work. It's like so subtle, but the impact can be quite profound. So anything you want to add, Karina before moving to another piece here.

Karina: 00:48:39

Thanks for letting me ride the wave.

Nicole Lohse: 00:48:41

No problem. So anyone else have any insight of like, what are you afraid would happen if you weren't people pleasing? This is one way we can approach this.

Karina: 00:48:53

I would say

Dre: 00:48:54

super similar. Like, I don't know what my needs are or who I am and therefore cannot people who use would be like left to figure that out. But on another angle, I do feel like I would rather like vaporized and have them be a burden to anyone. And so it's like to make sure everyone's happy and flu sailing is like to remove any of my Yeah, like needs anything that would cause a ripple because they are like my it's probably my greatest fear to me. And I like to be a burden in or like annoying in some way. I'd like I would rather.

Nicole Lohse: 00:49:34

Yeah. It's like no physical things. So you could play with it similar to how I just invited Karina to explore or with this question, but what I'm more drawn to with you, Dre is like, okay, there's this unraveling pattern, right that we spoke to and at the end of it is this fizzle away. Right? It's like that's, that's the be all end all like that. That's the ideal. Thank you. Bye very much, let's just tiptoe out of here and pretend nothing happened. So something that can be fun to play with. And this is like, Well, what happens? What shows up for you at the idea and you've already kind of expressed this, but we'll try it this way, at the idea of fizzling away a little bit less. So if we did the pattern a little tiny bit less what chosen?

Dre: 00:50:25

I guess it's just letting people be in their own potential negative experiences and not feeling like I need to be involved, just

Nicole Lohse: 00:50:38

kind of thing. Yeah, it would look like, Okay, let's try it this way. Can you imagine yourself fizzling out right now?

Dre: 00:50:44

Yeah, I guess so. I'm probably, like, disengaged entirely. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:50:49

Okay, perfect. So if we almost think of like a dial, we're fizzle out, you could like totally turn into the wall behind you. Or you could turn into the wall a little less, if you could fizzle out more or less. How do you notice that happening? Or like, where is there an edge in the level of how much you could fake not fizzle out? Or fade away?

Dre: 00:51:17

Like in my own reaction? Yeah, we're in the circumstances around it.

Nicole Lohse: 00:51:21

So see if you can play more with this. And this is where I'm gonna get you to, like, leave all details aside for a sec. And sometimes I'll work with details. Sometimes I won't. But this is where I find it can be interesting when we just pay attention to the experience that we want to have. We can learn just from that experience. So if you imagine yourself kind of turning invisible or like you know, fizzling out fading away, like being not seen that is that can you access that? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Now, how do you notice how do you notice yourself accessing that? It's kinda like make yourself invisible. So that the water stay calm? Yeah. Yes. A little bit of like, the, like, when you're a kid and you hear something scary, and you're just like, be as still as possible. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, no, rock the boat. Yeah, exactly.

Dre: 00:52:20

Yeah, become an ad like, I'm noticeable as possible.

Nicole Lohse: 00:52:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 00:52:28

Brilliant. Okay, I love it. So, in its fullest form, you wouldn't be breathing, you wouldn't be moving. Ideally, no one sees you. You're quiet as a mouse. Okay. What shows up at the idea of being a tiny, tiny, tiny bit less quiet.

Dre: 00:52:45

I guess the potential for it to not be received well. Like

Unknown: 00:52:54

to be.

Dre: 00:52:56

Yeah, instead of just like letting it pass and trying to like ride it out being like, Oh, I'm like, Well, don't. Don't add to it.

Karina: 00:53:05

Don't just let it fizzle

Dre: 00:53:06

out entirely.

Nicole Lohse: 00:53:08

Would you say there's fear? Is there fear? Yeah, for sure. How do you notice the fear?

Dre: 00:53:13

Probably like checking in on how people seem to be perceiving me like if they seem upset with me or if I'm, yeah, sometimes they think about like, what expression maybe on my face. But

Nicole Lohse: 00:53:25

even if obviously you feel yourself doing that a little bit right now.

Dre: 00:53:28

I'm like, definitely like a little bit of the shoulder forward.

Nicole Lohse: 00:53:35

Yeah, we're pushing I'm pushing you a little into it. Not on purpose but kind of

Dre: 00:53:44

trying so pain an outward calmness but also being like distracted by that.

Nicole Lohse: 00:53:51

Totally. Yeah, so there's this brilliant survival pattern of keep it all calm stay outward calm outwardly in this calmness while the inside is freaking out. Yeah. Okay, so I want to see if you can follow the inside a little bit more if you were to notice that kind of freaking out quality if that were just in your awareness a teeny tiny bit more how would you describe it what shows up? What wants to happen? Well, we know what wants to happen is we know calm the waters again. Right this is your edge this is the edge you're playing with is like a tiny bit less of this braking system that wants to keep the waters calm, equals you having to feel this thing that's underneath and it's really uncomfortable. So this is your edge similar to Karina this is your edge where you're like oh shit, but I don't want to feel it. The brake is like no, no, no, no, no, no, keep the look calm. Right. So this is like, let's just acknowledge that it makes sense that you want to keep the waters calm because the thing that you're feeling underneath feels too big to feel like it's too much too scary. I don't want to go there. Right? So instead, you've got this brilliant strategy of keeping the waters calm, staying spout, small, don't move, you know, barely breathe. So there's this conflict at play of something underneath wants to has an experience that wants to be expressed, but it feels like too much. So we put the brake on it. So it makes sense.

Dre: 00:55:31

Yeah, totally. It's just like, the idea of being being sometimes is like, I will inconvenience somebody. Exactly.

Nicole Lohse: 00:55:39

Exactly. Better. So this is where, so from a top down perspective, you could be like, but I want to be seen, I want to speak up, I want to, you know, like we spoke to before, like, I'm gonna advocate not saying you do that, but I'm just naming that for some people. You might be like, I'm so sick of staying small, I want to stand up for what I think I need. But on the inside, something's like, no, if we do that, we're gonna die. Thank you very much. Right? So I want to name this because I find it so important for us to see the layers at play, the people pleasing is helping you not feel the intensity of that fear and terror of potentially, I'm not going to put exact words to it, because it's your experience. But like the riskiness of having to feel the vulnerability of what's underneath this braking system is too much. So there's a good reason that pattern is there. So one way I would explore it is like, first off, just acknowledge that these dynamics exist, right? That there's a break, and then there's this experience underneath. And then you can even see if you can move in between the two like, Okay, here's the way I keep myself small. That's what this feels like. And then here's that thing underneath. And that's how this feels like it I call it shifting back and forth, where it's like, I'm shifting into that pattern. And then I'm shifting into this, this physiological response that's underneath it, and all this energy. And even just by shifting back and forth, or even me talking about it, it might all of a sudden create a bit of space, and it actually feels a little less scary. A little less intense. Is anything happening for you.

Dre: 00:57:21

It almost feels like liberating in the way that it's like the scary. What if I'm like, oh, it's probably a lot easier.

Karina: 00:57:29

Yeah,

Dre: 00:57:30

everyone's just living their lives expressing themselves so freely. Maybe, maybe that wasn't easier.

Karina: 00:57:37

Do you feel like that's like?

Nicole Lohse: 00:57:39

Do you feel like that? That's that, like, really scared parts? Realizing that or is that the mind realizing that? Because that's two different things? Hmm.

Dre: 00:57:50

Probably the mind that Yeah, I agree. Or even thinking about when I have been like, it's okay to have an opinion. And like, going well, and like, remember that feeling?

Nicole Lohse: 00:58:03

Yeah. But and this is again, like, it's like, no, all I remember is that it's not okay. So I just for one more little exploration here dry. See if you can this staying small dampening quality, see if you can imagine it lifting just a little so that you feel some of that energy underneath. Does that feel possible in this moment? So this is where this is where it's interesting, because often what we perceive underneath feels so big and scary that our systems like Nope, don't go anywhere near it. Because at the time when it happened when we were however young, it was intense. And we adapted these brilliant ways to survive to not ever feel the intensity again. So it's often perceived to be this really big, scary thing, the more we kind of play with these edges and kind of ease the break off and feel some of that intensity. To me, it does feel like you've written through a little bit of a wave and there's still some brake, ready to come back on. Which is understandable, because to me, it's like onion layers, right? But there's a little more, maybe even confusion or like, Well, wait a minute, it's not as big and scary as I perceive it to be. Does that make sense?

Dre: 00:59:26

Yeah, I think it does. And I think that in the past I have been like so much more like hyper vigilantly people pleasing, and that is starting to be like Karina said, it's coming on in like anger and I'm like, big, big angry guy. And so that I think is something that's like naturally been happening over the last little while for me and where I'm like, less uncomfortable all the time, but it's just a natural thing to revert into. And so it's like, oh, yeah, like I Could dabble a bit I guess.

Nicole Lohse: 01:00:03

I can be in that edge of discomfort and maybe survive this situation.

Dre: 01:00:07

I still like people who have opinions that are negative.

Nicole Lohse: 01:00:12

Part of you does part of me does. Awesome. Thanks, Trey. So again, just to point out subtle differences, I started off Dre I talked about like the pattern and how it unfolds, right. And it's kind of like the the getting a little more invisibles, things fall on that moving is the end of the pattern. One way you could explore it is like look at the segments a bit more and see the process it takes, what we ended up shifting into is more like, Okay, here's the break, what happens if you do it a little bit less? Right. So that's how we we explored a little bit of that. And sometimes we have to be careful when we're trying to fix something. Right? Like I could be, for example, I'm a little bit bullshitting you a little to try to do this, when something inside is also like, no, no. So there's a flavor of me trying to fix it or change it? Well, it's like, hell no, I'm not doing this different. If I do this different, the consequences are way too big. And that's where that question is like, well, what are you afraid? What is going to happen if that braking system isn't there to help out? If it's not there? Is there anything that comes to mind? Which is what we did with Karina? Right, this question of like, if the pattern is off there, what would happen? Sometimes it's as deep as like ostracization, or death or like, abandonment, or whatever it is. It's usually it's usually pretty big. The reason why these patterns are here. So you're uncovering some of those layers, say,

Dre: 01:01:47

like, for sure. Yeah, that, like what you were using, as example, like, especially like abandonment, and like, yeah. ostracization. It's just like,

Nicole Lohse: 01:01:59

yeah. Why would you go anywhere near that? Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:02:03

So then it makes sense that there's some hesitancy to play within the realms of getting uncomfortable in the Preferences to just keep the waters calm. Right. Like, see the layers at play here? Yeah. I'm here to also avoid ostracization I can it do to your power there anything you wanted to share around your patterns? What are you afraid would happen if you didn't do them? Anything else that's there? With what we've been talking about? For me, I was

Paula: 01:02:38

thinking like what you say about people not liking you. Like that doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. Because it feels so much bigger. And it is about that about. I think when I'm most it feels that if I don't make, like everyone else around me calm and happy to like, the world will end and I'm very afraid of like, their anger and their rage. And it feels like dangerous even. So it's Yeah, since we thought about that, about people not liking is like, that's actually fine. Like, it's not nice when people don't like you. But that's not It's not dangerous, and it just feels like yeah, I don't know, it feels like a life or death thing. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:03:21

So the extremeness, the extreme pneus of the importance of the pattern is like, if I don't do it, the world will end. Yeah. So it really shows you how important your system perceives the pattern to be. Right? And, and I want to, I want to kind of put a different spin on this. And this is for all of us to consider with our patterns. How do you feel towards this pattern of yours, Paola, that is like, feels like it has to make sure everyone is happy or the world will end? How do you feel towards the fact that you do that? So we can all kind of ask ourselves How do you feel towards your pattern?

Paula: 01:04:08

That mean from a rational point of view, I feel it's like I've never it's not that I felt that my needs were neglected I've until very recently I've never realized that I had any needs and so saying I was very easygoing and chill like I'm I'm really low maintenance and I know that I have opinions but I like to this day I struggled to know what my opinions on it so my needs are so it's Yeah, I don't know it's I don't I don't feel that I have Yeah, I don't feel like I have like any needs or that's but from a rational point of view. I know that I do. Feel physical point of view. I think it's really different. I don't know I can't even I feel like I need like the pattern has to be there for like the world's run. I don't

Nicole Lohse: 01:04:59

know. I think that's an important thing to observe. There's almost like, it's not a justification, but like an acceptance maybe like, well, it has to be this way or the world wouldn't survive. It's like, like a wave learn to navigate it is just accept it, because without it, the worlds would fall apart. Does that make sense? So how you feel towards it is you don't, you don't necessarily so some for some people, how you feel towards your patterns, right, like Dre and Karina are like, Well, I'm pissed off, I'm annoyed. I'm angry. I'm resentful, right I'm I'm really challenged by my patterns, a DD anything you want to add towards how you feel towards, you know, how you feel towards your pattern.

Dede: 01:05:47

I suppose I can relate to everybody a little bit as well, like, you know, the person I have towards people pleasing specifically are so deeply ingrained that like, I don't know what it would be without it. So that's a curious inquiry. And sometimes I feel annoyed with myself for not being able to have strong boundaries. Like I can think of a specific friend here in Tofino. Like, they have really strong boundaries for themselves. And and sometimes they see this, I think we had that conversation last time in your worship, or no, it wasn't a teacher training. Pardon me. I see this almost as selfish and not arrogant. But damselfish is so such strong boundaries, and I don't know how it feel to have such defined needs. Yeah, I don't know. Because it's just been like, Yeah, I'm exercising, I hear myself say a lot in my current in my most close relationship with, which is my marriage, I now hear myself say, I'll follow your lead. So that's a way that I've been, I've given myself the permission to not take like, some kind of leader control of a situation in a people pleasing way, in giving myself permission to say, I'll follow your lead. So that is huge for me. And it's seen it sounds perhaps middle, but it's huge for me. Yeah.

Unknown: 01:07:45

Um, yeah, I mean,

Nicole Lohse: 01:07:47

I want to just catch something here. Right? What I'm hearing is that you're finding ways to a, you're aware of the pattern of wanting to make sure everyone's happy, and everything's taken care of and be be in the lead, and you're finding other ways to show up in the world. It's like Dre said to right, it's like, Oh, I could play with these edges of people not being happy. And can I just notice that maybe it's uncomfortable, right? Or I can know, anything else you want to add to that Dre around? Like how you're playing with the other possibility of doing a different?

Dre: 01:08:25

Yeah, like the, the founders being selfish is something I definitely feel and see. And like now more logically aware of that. And then it's the kind of thing where as I try it out more I'm like, like, boundaries are hard, but also really not hard. It's like one of those funny things that you're just like practicing that or like, yeah, like trying, not people pleasing, being like, what would that be like? And you're, like, terrifying, but also kind of annoying? Yeah,

Karina: 01:08:51

yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:08:52

So finding these different ways to experiment where it's not as familiar or not as comfortable, but there's capacity to try it on for size, right? And what's really standing out to me and what everyone's sharing is, it's like, well, I don't, I don't have needs, or I don't know what my needs are. So another way to experiment with that is like, Well, how could I notice these people that are like, whoa, you have needs that's that's who, how demanding of you and how, you know, cocky of you, or arrogant of you. And it's like, oh, but can I pause and see that as a model of what it might look like to have a need, I've entangled the fact that a need equals, you're selfish, you're greedy, you have too strong boundaries. So it's kind of like see the other end of the spectrum and see how you can notice that and how that looks like in them and then how it looks like in you, the discomfort it isn't you but how comfortable they are in it, and how that can also be a really The cool opportunity to learn like, Oh, I'm being modeled something because chances are you weren't modeled having your own needs being important when you were a kid like your needs didn't matter you didn't know what your yeses and your nose were because your yeses and noes quickly got shut down. Because someone else is yes as a nose was more important than yours so it's so hard because I want to like talk for hours about this and like dive deeper into powerless and deedes experiences. Well, Pamela, something that I want to kind of just come back to is again, how we feel towards a survival patterns for some people can be anger, frustration, annoyance, other people, it can be just this sense of like, whatever this this is how it has to be. And I can't imagine it any way else, or like Karina, and Diddy said of like, Well, who am I? If I'm not this? Right, what I want to invite us to do right now is to like pan out and see the many layers at play. So so far, we've talked about the survival pattern, we've talked about what's potentially at the core of it right? For Paola, it's like, well, if I don't do this, the whole world's gonna end for Dre, there's this like riskiness of we didn't fully hear it. But you know, there's the riskiness of having a need and the consequence of that ostracization, all of that kind of being there for Karina, same thing not being liked, or like, who am I, if I'm not that, dd, you also mentioned who am I, if I'm not these patterns, there might be something else also, like, if you're not making sure everyone else is okay. And everything is perfect, and everything is taken care of, and taking the lead on everything. Right? If you were to do that a little less, you're gonna find the discomfort that lies in there, which is why the patterns are there in the first place. So we've mainly talked about those layers, right? The pattern and what's at the core of it, the discomfort we're avoiding feeling. If we pan out a little bit more, we notice how we feel towards it. So that's where there's anger, frustration, annoyance, wanting things to be different, not so much with pauwela, right? It's more like, well, I have to just be this. But that's still this belief that's entangled in these inner layers. And so what I want to invite us to do to finish up is like, pan out even more. So it's as if we're drawing a map or seeing the map of all our layers at play. We see at the core is our trauma, the burdens, the beliefs, and then we have these patterns that we've adapted, then we have how we feel towards it. And it makes sense that there's anger, their frustration, resentment, there's make sense that people might be trying to find the answers, trying out all these different techniques to not be people pleasers anymore, right? But how do we pan out and acknowledge all these different layers that exist here. Anything happened for any of you with this idea of kind of like panning out creating more space to just like, get a bird's eye view on the many layers that are at play. Maybe Paola or DD, anything that shows up for you at the invitation that I'm proposing to you around that go there first, then for anyone else has anything to share.

Paula: 01:13:42

For me, I was because all the people pleasing in the end is we've talked about worrying about other people and sort of myself. But then as we were talking, I realized that it's actually really really self centered because it's just, it's, it's, it's in the end, about my patterns and how I make people feel and so on. So when you talk about panning out, it feels like it's a lot less about me, and then I feel a lot less burden on my shoulders, it felt kind of liberating to look out, like a little bit further instead of I just realized that I get stuck in my people pleasing, it's my world become so so small, so panning out really, really helps. Amazing.

Nicole Lohse: 01:14:18

So you're able to reconnect with yourself and not be entangled just in this very intense and important pattern that's so convinced that if you didn't do it, the world is going to just fall apart and right. But by panning out it's like oh wait another reality does exist. I am whole I am here. I do matter. I might even have needs the market. I am connected to this. Right? Yeah.

Paula: 01:14:46

And there's a whole world out there like everyone, we can all take care of the world. It just doesn't have to be me. So I'm getting chills. It's like it's really Yeah, it's that it's there's more than me in the world. So I'm not responsible for everything. It just feels really good.

Nicole Lohse: 01:15:00

Yeah, beautiful. It sounds it sounds like feels like to me that like, it's like you're polite plugging back into the collective experience instead of being lost in the individualistic pattern of oh my gosh, it's my responsibility to make sure that the world is happy. So, so huge. And this is where I think with all of us seeking and trying to find the answers of, you know, how do we become better people or heal or whatever our mission is here. It doesn't have to be so complicated, right, and the more we can pan out and kind of see the layers at play, we can hold it from a place where we're collectively supported. And where we can really hold the layers with a little more grace and a little more empathy instead of this conflict and challenge that we're constantly putting ourselves into, and how easy it can be like all you did Paulo's pan out, and then you were remembered, like, oh, art of this collective experience. And wait, it's not just me here. And yeah, so thank you for sharing that. DD anything for you.

Dede: 01:16:07

Remind me to question sorry?

Nicole Lohse: 01:16:09

No, no. Ah. So to kind of see it as layers, right, so at the core, we didn't fully get there, but at the core is like, Okay, if you weren't the lead and taking care of everyone and everything and had all the details in place. You don't have to experience the depth of the trauma, right? So then you have your your mad skills that you have to take care of everyone else. And then you have how you feel towards it. So you might be tired of it, you might be frustrated, you might be like, yeah, trying these different things out, right, letting your partner lead the way a little bit more and playing in the edges of that. And then if you pan out even more like getting a bird's eye view on the many layers that are at play here. Is there anything you experienced by panning out? And for some of you, when I say this, you'll be like, What are you talking about Nicole, I don't know, panning out and others, it'll be like, click something else is experienced. So it's not a big deal. If you don't experience something there. I'm not

Dede: 01:17:16

sure anything's coming out specifically. But what I can notice are witnesses that if I were not to be in these patterns, the amount of guilt that would be present. You know, it is a little bit difficult right now for me to visualize or feel or sin. But certainly, the word guilt, guilt rather, was coming up a lot. Yeah. I

Nicole Lohse: 01:17:45

appreciate you naming that. Because often, we have to see more of the inner layers, and acknowledge them before we're able to pan out. So if anyone's having a hard time panning out, it's usually because there's still some inner layers that are in conflict or haven't quite been seen yet. So even just by acknowledging that there's guilt there, right? And there's this, this experience that really comes with the guilt. And it also makes sense that there's guilt there. That's probably one of the main reasons why you do this, you know, people pleasing in different forms. So even just by acknowledging the guilt, for something change,

Dede: 01:18:27

oh, yeah, it doesn't have doesn't have to be so big or have to, you know, feeling guilty is guilty of resting guilty of, you know, not doing the dishes guilty of not cooking dinner, guilty of not walking into dog is cumulative, and it's exhaustive.

Nicole Lohse: 01:18:53

And this is where, again, you get to pay attention. Do you know, it's, you don't need to feel guilty, more of a like rational mind trying to tell yourself, you don't need to feel guilty. I'm pointing this out, because some people might see that, versus like, you know, like, there's a shift in your relationship to not having to feel guilty. Because embody, you have an embodied knowing that the guilt can be there less. That's different than my mind telling me, I don't have to be guilty. I just really find that's important to point out. And we've pointed it out a few different times, these differences have more like, I'm telling myself not to experience something or to experience something versus I actually feel it.

Dede: 01:19:38

Mm hmm. Yeah, there's a huge disconnect. For sure.

Nicole Lohse: 01:19:42

It's more than mine telling you to not be guilty.

Dede: 01:19:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:19:50

So the guilt still exists, but the mind is trying to tell the guilt not to. It's

Dede: 01:19:55

okay.

Nicole Lohse: 01:19:56

It's okay. Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:20:00

Yeah, so those are still the inner circles in the workings right when we pan out. And we're able to experience that Panda experience. And again, it takes some practice and takes some exploration. But when we pan out the guilt shifts, or we have a different relationship with the guilt, it makes more sense that it's there and then it starts to shift and soften. So I'm planting that as the see. For further explorations. Yeah, in the future, no problem. Karina Dre, I'm mindful of time. So anything you want to add about panning out and then we'll,

Karina: 01:20:38

we'll wrap up, I felt similar to Paula it right away was one of the like, calmness. I am whole, I'm part of the world. And I think that I lose sight of that, forget that. And focus inward too much.

Nicole Lohse: 01:20:59

And it's such a, like, again, there'll be many people who don't experience this. So if you have no idea what Powell and Karina are speaking to, no, you're not alone. And it does take some practice and some pausing and noticing these other layers. And both of them have done discover one of my programs, right, and Powell has worked with me personally. So they're more immersed in this work. But what I want to name is like, the more we discover that we're already whole, the easier it becomes to pause and notice us in the pattern, to note to know what's at the core of it. And to dive deeper into unraveling more of where we're stuck in the threat response cycle. It allows us to also see how we feel towards our patterning in the many dynamics that are at play there and how we are often in conflict with ourselves. But we're able to do it with way more space and way more grace for just being human having all these different patterns and having all these different ways of moving through the world. And this is the ongoing practice. We're already whole pause and notice, bring more awareness to the picture, bring more curiosity into what else is possible, recognize that there's nothing to fix. We're already whole, right? It's this ongoing and like, a practice every day. Like it becomes a way of life. It's not just the steps we do every now and then. So naming that. Dre anything you wanted to add? Yeah, I

Dre: 01:22:32

think when I found out there was part of me, that was like life mess. Do not okay, like the acceptance of it being uncomfortable. Like, even if it's, you know, still gonna, like linger that like self doubt or whatever. Like there's still this element of the game like being okay with messiness being like brave about having uncomfortable feelings and other people knowing.

Nicole Lohse: 01:22:57

I like it. I like it. So it gets to be the practice, right? So when we notice for people pleasing, we can pause and notice where people pleasing doesn't make sense that of course for people pleasing, right, trying to avoid feeling something here, right, it's helping out. How can I pan out in that moment to play with the edges? Because I've created more space for my experience? Yeah. Cool. You and Didi need to go to a restaurant together. Awesome. Anything else? Any of you want to add? Before we sign off? Maybe I will. If you have a takeaway, what's your aha or a takeaway that you're gonna kind of leave with or play with? After today, and anything else you want to throw in there? Go Go for it. And

Karina: 01:23:52

I'd like to say I needed that reminder of like, I've, I always think about pausing and noticing, but when I'm really busy, and in work and in you know, in that I find that really difficult, but it feels like more doable. Just the reminder of stepping back and looking at it, the bigger picture. Beautiful. Yeah. Thanks, Karina. That was nice. Thank you. Good. Simple practice, although sometimes complex, but also really powerful. Yeah. Anything else to add? For me? I

Paula: 01:24:24

tell people that I'm recovered or recovering people decided that I'm, I feel like I was like, I'm at 90% of the way there. I feel like I've made so much progress. But they're going and digging back into these paths. I realize it just makes me aware of how much they still run my life. So there's always more work to do. There's always one more layers to peel.

Nicole Lohse: 01:24:45

Yeah, never ending. But it gets easier now. Oh, yeah. It can happen with more ease. It doesn't necessarily become easier.

Paula: 01:24:58

And I feel as well that I have more grace from my self because I know that I that there will be progress that I can move through those so that it feels like there's an end. That's how it feels now versus before.

Nicole Lohse: 01:25:09

Beautiful. Thanks, Paola. Anything else before we end? Right.

Nicole Lohse: 01:25:16

Thank you so much for the four of you for being here and being willing to explore and share your experiences hopefully learned. You and everyone listening I'm sure can relate to what you experienced. And I'm hopefully someone. We all learn something from this. So thank you for being willing to be here and to support all of us in our learning.