Get Curious - Being An Empath - The Gifts & The Challenges | 028

Nicole Lohse: 00:00:00

If you're someone who's pretty sensitive and you find it easy to walk into a room and know what's going on for people, or you're someone who quite easily merges with someone else's energy where you have a hard time differentiating, like what's going on for you and what's going on for other people. If you find yourself in patterns where you tend to people please, or take care of everyone, to make sure the room is okay, to make sure everyone else is okay, so that you're okay, because you can really feel what's going on for everyone. Then I encourage you to listen to this episode. I'm joined by Keisja and Stacey. Keisja is a hairdresser. Stacey's a coach, there's a reason why they ended up in these fields. They are empaths. They are those types of people that can really feel what's going on for others, and they're really good at meeting them with where they're at. In this conversation, we speak to the gifts and the challenges of being an empath, while also really looking at how our developmental trauma, our upbringing, how the way we developed, really impacts how sensitive we may be. Now, empathy is a gift, and it can also be a survival pattern, and this is something that we explore on this call. And you probably know lots of different strategies on how to support yourself as an empath, you know, setting up boundaries and really taking care of yourself and grounding yourself. And in this conversation, we speak less about the strategies, although we name a bunch of them, and instead, I direct Keijaa and Stacey towards inquiring, what's at the core of this shift that happens when we pick up on energy in the room that indicates a danger. And you know, the empath comes online, and then the survival patterns come online to manage the situation, to make sure we're okay. So if you're curious about your own patterns that are maybe rooted in you being an empath, but then supported you to survive, if you want to kind of weed through those patterns a little bit more and have a deeper understanding of what's at the core of them, because healing and supporting what's at the core of them allows you to actually shift out of needing to survive as an empath, and it allows you to be more in the gift of the empath, and allows you to really embrace who you truly are. So this is can be a really big journey, and I'm so, so grateful for Keisja and Stacey for joining me for this call, because they dive into the depths of their own experiences around being an empath and also the survival patterns that are rooted in being an empath or rooted in the trauma that you know came online because of being an empath. So hopefully this episode resonates with you, hopefully you are able to pause and notice some of your own experiences. Feel free to download the experiential guide to support you with that and feel free to reach out if you have more questions. I want to know, what did you learn about yourself? What did you discover? What landed that was shared today that really allows you to understand who you are from a different perspective, and allows you to become more of that empathic witness for yourself. Enjoy the episode and again. Big, big. Thank you to Keisja and Stacey for joining me to start, because we all feel a lot. I want to even invite us in this moment to to check in, to notice. So for me, for example, I'm noticing I'm I'm leaning forward. I'm kind of checking in with the two of you to make sure you're okay. There's a little bit of this, like, it's a very subtle hyper vigilance I'm aware of, of just like leaning in trying to get a sense of like, okay, what's going on for them? Are they okay? Can we drop into this conversation, or do we need to connect first? And maybe this is just for me, maybe both of you will benefit as well. But I'm really noticing the need to name my experience, just because that supports me as someone who feels a lot to come back to my own experience, even if it might be a little entangled with someone else's. And it also allows me to pause a bit more so that I I'm I'm feeling the expansiveness of the room a little bit more. I'm looking out of my window a little bit more. My voice is dropping, and I feel myself landing in my seat a lot more. So I wanted to start just even before we dive into anything, maybe just for myself. Maybe it'll be helpful for you too, as well, to name what I'm experiencing. And I'm, I'm doing this because I like talking about what I am experiencing. But also I'm, I'm doing it because to me, this is different than a grounding exercise, which is something we'll we'll probably talk about later. I personally don't do a lot of grounding exercises, and I look forward to sharing a bit more of a conversation about grounding with the two of you in a bit. And I laugh a little because part of me is like, oh, people expect me to lead a grounding exercise before we start things, but I never will, because it's just not what I do. So I want to invite the two of you to also just pause for a moment and notice, is there anything you're experiencing in this moment that you want to share?

Stacey: 00:05:45

Keisja, would you like to go first?

Keisja: 00:05:50

It's funny you bring this up. This is something that I am trying to do more often before going into new experiences or new situations of just trying to really notice, you know, what's happening internally for myself, and I guess, sort of like a grounding technique. Obviously, I've never been on a podcast before, or, you know, even had maybe such a like in depth conversation that we're about to have about the topic of, you know, empathy as well. Sometimes I feel kind of alone in the whole highly sensitive realm, or empathetic realm sometimes. So I think for me, a little bit of nervousness today, because I know we're gonna get into it, which is also very exciting for me too, because I love to talk about this kind of stuff, but definitely a little bit of nervousness. For sure. Are you?

Nicole Lohse: 00:06:49

Are you able to share how you notice the nervousness?

Keisja: 00:06:54

Oh, for me, it's always a little bit of tightness in the chest and the stomach, definitely. That's where I noticed it the most, and I usually am just having to remember to breathe through it and not do those sharp, sharp, quick breaths, but more deeper, deeper inhale and exhale.

Nicole Lohse: 00:07:16

Yeah, awesome. I love that you bring that up because here's the difference in between, like trying to make your system not be nervous versus acknowledging the nervousness, right? And, and we'll get into this when at the end of the podcast, when we speak a little to strategies on, for example, staying grounded or not getting so entangled in other people's things. Something I love to play with is that that difference between okay, I can use these strategies like be mindful of my breath and try to ground, or try to land to arrive here a little bit more. And then the other thing we can do is just acknowledge what is, acknowledge the nervousness, and sometimes by acknowledging what we're experiencing, we're not in so much of a conflict with ourselves, because we're not trying to not be what we actually are. We're actually giving ourselves the permission to be the thing that we are. And then that's all just energy that wants to move through, and then we land in a different way. So I just wanted to name that as two different ways, and especially as as empaths, because you do feel so much often. What I have found with with people who feel so much, there is this constant implement of strategies to not feel so much or to reconnect with self and right. So I really want to weave this into our conversation today. The difference of feeling what is and being able to then differentiate what's mine what someone else is implementing strategies when we need to to stay more here, to stay more connected, but also, how do we just let that energy move through us so we don't have to be constantly doing so much work,

Keisja: 00:09:06

right?

Nicole Lohse: 00:09:08

Yeah, so I love that that already got woven in, because we'll weave it in even more totally,

Stacey: 00:09:15

absolutely, and I can, for me, I always feel it right in my heart, and the deeper I have dropped into acceptance, awareness and embodiment of even being an empath, and even just here, right in the present moment, just to speak to it, Nicole, As you mentioned, you know, naming it, I find that super, super helpful. I already feel my heart. It feels like a regulation, like it's but it was pounding in a way of like, really expansive. I feel myself. I feel both of you and. I think it's such an incredible opportunity to have this conversation. And I think as we're speaking, or for myself, as I'm continuing to speak more of my truth and acknowledging my gifts and authenticity and arriving this way and not being afraid how my words come out or how they land, allowing them to be and knowing that they'll arrive as they should, is the process for me to to to arrive embodied and authentic and present. So thank you for the opportunity to speak to it, because this is, this is a part of what I what I do. I do need to do a lot of grounding. I live like way up in the clouds so in order to come in and to the body. And I do think this is something I learned when I was younger. But I also feel very innately like my soul was born this way, I'm just much more of like above, but to come like, really, in the presence, it almost feels like I'm just getting information, like my heart beats to that extent, to bring me into the embodiment, it's like calling me back, back in here.

Nicole Lohse: 00:11:17

Cool. Yeah, there's so much, so much in what both of you shared. So excited to dive into the conversation even more. And I really want to have us notice the different parts that are at play, right? The part that wants to float away while the heart knows that there's so much information there, the part that needs to ground. And also there's there's so many parts at play all the time, and the more we're aware of these dynamics that are at play, we can notice the conflicts and how we get in our own way and create more work for ourselves. And also notice how we can actually get out of our own way to be more in the flow of these gifts that we have. So that's my intention today, especially for those listening as well, to really notice like we're speaking to the gift of being an empath, which also comes with many challenges. And I also see it as a way that it can help us really survive, and the more we embody the gift of it, we experience ourselves so differently than when we're in the survival form of being an empath. So we're going to dive into some layers of that in this conversation. So to start for people listening and for us to also get to know each other a little bit more, I'd love to know like, what is it that you experience that connects you with being an empath? So how, how do you live your day to day that really shows you like, whoa, you've got this gift of being an empath or the challenges, but whatever shows up,

Stacey: 00:13:08

okay, I'll drop in first. Um, I was unaware till my early 30s that I was an empath. I labeled myself a lot of things, always feeling misunderstood, most importantly, by myself, and feeling like I didn't fit in, because I felt socially overwhelmed all the time in rooms, even just with certain people not knowing that I was feeling so deeply, you know, I thought it was absolutely thought there was something wrong with me. And in my teens, I built a different persona, just so I could arrive. And I really could, yeah, try to shape shift my way into society. And in my 20s, I started feeling definitely a calling to get deeper, like, more connected to what I remember from when I was younger, but at the same time feeling very avoidant of it because it didn't feel safe, I didn't feel accepted. And then when I dropped into really getting to know myself more in my early 30s, it's when it arrived. I had a soul session with one of my soul guides, Elisa Romeo, and it was i She just said, you know, do you know you're an empath? And I said, I'm a what I mean? I know about being empathetic, and, you know, having empathy, but I actually was not familiar with the term. And as soon as she named it, and as soon as. I felt it. It was almost like a it was, it was like a missing puzzle piece that not that I need to have something to define me, but it made me understand that I'm not broken, and that there are a lot of tools and modalities that I can learn to be able to embody my being empathic and really arriving more present and connected to who like my authenticity with being an empath. And that was just the beginning of my journey. And so now it is. It's very innate, it's very accepted. It's I speak to it often with anyone who's open to hear, and for those there's just kind of a silent unknowing, and I can just smile and receive and also really work on my boundaries. I find that it's an incredible energetic workout for me. So I'm 44 now, and I feel I've been in consistent relationship and acceptance with being an empath, and I find it to be much, much more of a gift than a hindrance of what I felt it to be when I was younger.

Nicole Lohse: 00:16:19

Can you share a little Stacy on, what do you notice? Like, what do you experience as an empath? How, like, what? How does it take shape? How do you I'm trying not to use too many words so that you can fill in the gaps there, but yeah, like that. Yeah, yeah. It

Stacey: 00:16:38

arrives for me as an innate knowing. It's very it's an intuitive flow, and it's interesting, because when I described the heart, you know how it presents itself for me, just arriving in this conversation right now, I have felt it so many times before, because I feel it physically. I feel it in my emotions. I feel a natural, mad magnetic draw. I can tell, even without spoken word, like a magnetism and a safety. Because I do believe when I was younger, because I was before I built that protective armor, that persona in my teens, I didn't understand there were no boundaries, there was no protective armor, and I could feel the light and dark of both, and it felt really unsafe the world felt. Yeah, I, you know, I just didn't feel safe in my body and with in certain situations. So now it's definitely learning to bring in that breath. And when I'm feeling whether it's a magnetism or maybe something that just feels disconnected, I allow it to just be what it is, because I'm aware of it, versus trying to let the mind make a story and tie it into something, which is what I used to do. So so it certainly, for me, is very energetic, and it's, you know, when I arrive into a room, whether it's a gathering with a lot of people, I really have to ground myself before I arrive in i Do you know some breath work, bringing in nervous system regulation and and sometimes if, if I feel overwhelmed in a room, because it still happens, I can excuse myself. I can go outside. I feel the sun, I feel the air. Nature is very grounding, and like it helps me become more regulated. And then I can arrive again. And so I always want to make sure I'm not make sure I'm not spilling my empathic ways onto other people. And at the same time, differentiating between what is mine that I'm feeling from like a hard, expansive space, and if I'm feeling any like darkness or disconnect or maybe like heightened ego. You know, just getting taken a moment however, that is to arrive with it either detach, or I can choose to be in conversation or not, if that makes sense, and that's nothing towards anyone else. It's just I'm naturally drawn to, well, I guess all. But it is, it is interesting how, how it presents itself. So it's, it's, it's a dance I can say now, yeah, now, versus, versus what it used to feel like when I was younger, which was very like, constrained and, you know, fearful. I remember talking to my therapist and saying, and I did speak to her, and I said, I found out I'm an empath. And she was like, Oh, that would make sense. And I was like, yeah. I mean, this is, like, after three years of, you know? I mean, it's just there's so many layers and so many things. But I would say to her, I just want to feel safe. And I remember her reflecting back and saying, what is it that you don't feel safe? But this is very early in my work. Work and and I know that to be so true. Now it's it's okay to feel unsafe with things, but it's okay to also like speak to it, as we did. I think when I acknowledge it and when I speak to it, that it takes away what that unsafety is allows me to arrive. Great,

Nicole Lohse: 00:20:21

all right, there's lots of nuggets in there that I'm sure people can relate to and that I want to come back to Kesha. I'll get you to share first, and then we'll dive into some more of the layers of both what Stacy shared and I'm sure what you'll be speaking to. So thank you, Stacy, brilliant, brilliance in the empath field, the gifts and difficulties

Keisja: 00:20:50

totally I have always, I guess, just touching on my experience with being an empath, not really knowing what even an empath was knowing, you know, there's that trait that I just have always had, which is empathy, or empathetic. I was also raised in a home where empathy was, you know, the utmost importance. We have empathy for others. You know, we have empathy for others. We're kind to others. You know, growing up in that space from a really young age, being told that empathy is important. You're always going to have empathy for others. I was always told as a kid that I was highly sensitive, very emotional, and I felt that. I've always felt that if someone else was hurting, especially in like as a kid, like my direct family unit, mom, dad, brother, I hurt, you know, and I just thought that that was just, you know, that's just an empathetic trait. It wasn't till later in my teen years where, you know, going out to social settings, you kind of touched on this Stacy where there's that overwhelm, you know, you walk into a space and it's like, I can pick up who's anxious in the room. I can pick up maybe who hasn't had a good day. And it might be just a subtle, you know, mannerism that they show me. It might be the way they speak, or it just might be as I say, like, and an energy thing, you know, where their energy is just coming across, and you just pick that up. And I remember multiple times in, you know, my teen years, and these, like, high school functions, or these parties, whatever, and I would walk away from them with a friend, and, you know, I would have the conversation of, oh, did you feel that from that person? Like, I don't know if that person's okay, you know, I don't know if that person's feeling good. Did you feel that? And a lot of my friends think, no, I didn't pick up on that at all. And so there's that that, I guess, that space where you're like, am I strange? Like, am I feeling something that nobody else is feeling here? This is so weird. And I just thought maybe I was just a little bit more empathetic than, you know, some other people I was with, just because that's how I was raised. And it wasn't till a couple years ago with my therapist, where HSP, highly sensitive person, was the topic of conversation. And she handed me a list of, you know, traits of an HSP, and she said, I want you to read this. I want you to tell me if these apply to you. And one of them was walking into a room and being able to feel other things from people, feel people's energies. And there's a list of other traits too. And I just remember looking at it being like, Yep, I have all these. I experience all of these things. And it wasn't till, you know, we started talking more, and, you know, multiple sessions later, she said, I think you're an empath. And I would What does that even mean? I know I'm empathetic, but what do you mean an empath? I didn't know you could be, I guess, for lack of better words like Stacey said, defined by it. But it was comforting in a way, because there wasn't any time like experience before where I walked away from a social interaction and maybe took something on from someone, or took someone's emotions on, or what they were feeling so deeply and someone could relate to that that I was with. Oh yes, I also took that on. Or, Oh, that also affected me, or I thought about that five days after the fact, you know, and really sat in it. And now more so in, you know, my later 20s now, where I'm doing the work and I'm doing therapy, and I've been coined an empath by my therapist, and really notice it now. And I mean the gifts of it, of course, but now I'm kind of on the journey of looking about how I show up relationally to people, platonic or not, how that comes to play, the type of people I may attract because of being an empath. And I'm still in the space of. That journey of creating, like the armor, like Stacy said, you know, I never really built that armor as a kid. So now it's more so I'm in the space of wanting to build that armor, you know, and in a space on my healing journey and my work with my therapist, especially, of you need a little bit of armor, you know, when you're this type of person, there's that good kind of armor, and there's that balance of when to put that armor on and maybe when to take it off, and when to know when that comes into play. And that's like the big journey for that I'm on currently, and actually just in the last probably year, noticing that I need to find some some balances as well with boundaries right. Boundaries are such a struggle with with empaths, you know, and they feel almost from my experience, personally, they feel wrong. You know, boundaries are wrong and they don't make you a good person, which is a total narrative that I've at least made up in my mind. And I know a lot of you know, Empath struggle with to reading the books and listening to the podcast talking about the subject. A lot of Empath struggle with boundaries and struggle with that narrative. Of, you know, I have this gift of being empathetic, and I have this so I should be using that, you know? I should be using it and expending it and giving it out, but to what, to what expense of ourselves? And that's the big one, yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 00:26:30

beautiful, something that stands out in what both of you are sharing, and that I want to invite listeners into, if they can relate to you know, being sensitive, picking up on information being maybe they don't even know yet that they're an empath, but I'm always curious about patterning and how something arises, because what happens afterwards, often then becomes how we might survive the situation. So there's a few things. Like, Stacy, you said, you know, you then put the armor on when you were younger, you know, put the masks on, and kind of tried to fit in, to navigate society, because you felt like you weren't accepted. You didn't belong. All these layers there, right? So it's like, how do I mold myself to fit in? And keja, you were like, This is what I have to be. This is what I'm modeled this is how I'm supposed to be in the world, right? So there's, there's something I'm curious about in this, in the gift of the being an empath, and then the patterns that follow it. So I want to explore that a little. Are you both open to exploring that a little? Yeah, okay, so it might not make sense yet, but what I'm drawn to is when you when you bring awareness to the quality of being an empath. To me, it's like the attunement to what's going on in the energies of the world is on, right? There's this, like radar that's on and the information is being received. So to me, that's kind of like the first stages of being an empath, there's information coming in that not everyone necessarily has access to, even though I will side note say that I believe everyone can have access to this information. We're just disconnected from it, or really in the extreme of feeling everything. There's a layer of a spectrum that I'll speak to in a bit. Can you both relate to that? Kind of like, the antennas are out, the feelers are out. You can you just know what's happening, right? So to me, there's the there's a flavor to that. There's this, to me, it feels expansive. It feels like I'm connected into a field, and I can kind of pick up on on the information, or the vibration or the signals that that that field is kind of projecting, or it's my projection of it, but the information that's kind of coming through there. So both of you can relate to that. Anything you want to add to how you feel that those beginning flavors of like the knowing, really agreeing with you. I

Stacey: 00:29:25

also want to leave space for Kasia,

Nicole Lohse: 00:29:30

yeah. Space is gonna be edited out too.

Unknown: 00:29:36

Yeah. She's leaving space for me. We're just gonna go here.

Stacey: 00:29:39

This is also very, this is common of a trait for an empath, right? It's when you're speaking to, you know, I don't know Keisha if you can relate to this, but I'm very much, or, I would say, used to be, and I'm still in working with it, but a people pleaser and really wanting to make sure that everyone. Has their time and their place and that things are and there's part of me where it feels so true. And like you said, I love to give in that way, but we also have to have those boundaries, so we don't give so much of ourselves that we're depleted. And so not that that's what's happening here, but as you and I are both kind of allowing or a little space for either of us to step in. But yes, Nicole, I would absolutely agree to I think it's a really good description, especially if there's some people too who are listening to this, and they're not empaths, but they're in a relationship with an empath. I think this is very helpful to bring in tangible, digestible words and visions that gives a little bit more of an understanding of what it's like for us. It's like, yeah, having that antenna, that radar, that's just like always expanding and going and yet it can also feel, it can feel like a lot, at least for me. And and and again, that's where that discernment comes in. And typically, it's always for me, just coming back into my body. I just need to come back home to self when I'm feeling overwhelmed from being overly sensitized, and I have to drop into one of my practices, tools, modalities, to to do that. And I'm like, okay, and then I'll typically journal or write something out or pull card. I mean, it depends on where I'm at, but because sometimes there's information that is asking to come in, but I never, it's hard to get clear on what it is when it's there's so much, yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 00:31:39

and this is why I want to speak more to the thread of what unfolds as an empath, because it's like there's information there, and then even what you just described, both of you, you're like, and I'm going to give a pause, because I'm a people pleaser, and I want to give space, right? So that comes later. It's like the feeling is there, and then come our patterns that evolve after the ability to feel what's happening right and the and the many ways, will adapt or take responsibility or create space or try to fix or try to help, or, you know, whatever it is there's that is what comes after This information we receive, Yes, perfectly described. And absolutely, yeah, yeah. Keisha, anything you want to add to the antenna feeling or the the Yeah, first flavor there.

Keisja: 00:32:31

I'm just trying to think back of when, you know, I enter a room, or, I mean, I even relate it just in, like, my day to day, doing, you know, being a hairstylist and picking up in the first five minutes, what you know, what this person is feeling, and how maybe this appointment is going to go even. And I think in my job, at least I've it was a very hard, hard first couple years in my job, and I swore I would not do it past two years, and now I'm eight years in, and, you know, I love it more now than I ever have, and I think it's because, not because, you know, I've gotten better at my job and my skills have progressed, but also I've learned To disconnect from maybe what somebody is bringing in and and presenting to me emotionally, how to hold space for that and then not, and then let it go, you know, at a time where it needs to be let go and not, you know, because I don't care for that person. I don't care for that client. Of, you know, I feel like I'm constantly doing check ins with myself. Of do I need to hold this for longer than this appointment? You know, what is this serving me past this time with this person? Is there anything I can really do to help this person? And am I? Am I going to hurt myself in the process? You know? I think, like Stacy said, you know, we tend to be people pleasers, or another word that come to mind was the caregiver. You know, a lot of times, empaths have maybe grown up in a home where you you're the caregiver, or you're you've been, you know, brought up and taught to be the person that kind of regulates everybody and keeps the peace, the peacemaker. You know that more so in my in my experience, personally. So then when I go to work, you know, it's hard not to just jump right into that role, or I'm going to be the peacemaker, I'm going to bring you down. I'm going to, it's my job. It's my and it's kind of now and just in the most recent years, and doing the work and and whatnot. It's, it's kind of, yeah, coming to that space of, you know, it's not my job unless I want it to be my job. And what, yeah, what's happening to me here? You know, it's not always about the other person. I am a I am a person too, and, and I think even just being an impacting. Use that little bit of that autonomy, you know, where it's about everybody else, and you know, it's stepping back into that space just recently, just in the last year, where I've kind of had to constantly check in, constantly remind myself of, you know, you need to take care of you too, right? You are a person. You have autonomy, and you have feelings as well. So that's like the big the big space that I have to completely check in all the time with myself all day.

Nicole Lohse: 00:35:31

It's beautiful because both of you have shared some really cool strategies that you already implement. After those feelings are there, the knowing or the information that's coming through is there, and then you've got all these brilliant either patterns that you are aware of, and you catch yourself and and make sure you don't move into them, or there's these strategies in place to to keep yourself separate from merging with someone else. And I want to just share some of my own experience with this, because I'm I also I feel a lot. And what's interesting for me is I almost come from the other end of the spectrum, where I've kept myself so protected that I only feel if I've been invited in or I only feel that's a lie. I feel it, but I don't pay attention to it, so I don't take responsibility or feel like I have to be the people pleaser or the peacemaker for me, like I've always been able to keep it at a distance, which has impacted me in a way where then I'm not allowing connection in, or I'm not allowing myself to be seen in my vulnerability. So I still feel it, but I keep myself so separate from it that, or I used to, at least, and I still do, thank goodness. But, you know, I keep myself so separate from it that I don't get involved. So I wanted to name that just in case other people are listening who also can relate to feeling a lot, but are not so much on the people pleasing, but maybe on another end of the spectrum where it's like, well, I keep myself so protected that I don't get involved with anyone kind of thing. And for me, like the information when it comes in, it's like, the information is there, and then I could, I can either shut it off, because it's not mine to pay attention to, or I follow it and I pay attention to it, if, especially for me now it's like, if I'm welcomed in, like, let's go. Let's, let's dive into the depths of this, because I can feel your whole history in the room here, you know. So I, I just think it's so beautiful to have this ability to feel. And those that yeah, are listening, I want to just invite us all to notice. What are our patterns right after we get the first senses of something? So I spoke to kind of this, you know, the the radars on, the information's coming in, and if we were to slow it down, I want to see if we can all notice what comes next. So let's play with this Stacy you mentioned, like walking into a dinner party or going into a group event, right? You'll do something to prepare yourself. I want to, I want to almost invite us all to imagine ourselves about, to walk into a group event and to notice how our system responds to that idea. Because, you know, grounding yourself doing all these things is like the strategy to not take on everything, but I want to see if we can, almost like tease it all apart, and see what happens in our physiology, what happens in our response to the idea of connecting with a group or even just one other person, because that's going to give us information on the patterns that we have, that He have evolved because of our ability to feel so you choose if it's just like connecting with one person or connecting with a group of people. Is there anything the two of you notice that shows up at the idea of walking into a room to meet someone or a group of people just right now in this moment, what shows up, usually

Keisja: 00:39:23

for me? Well, right when it was mentioned, I envisioned a group of people, like a tight tightness in the chest, for sure, and I don't know that maybe that's that, that prepare, that preparation. Okay, here we go. A lot's going to be thrown at me here, which is a familiar feeling. I think I get that every time going into a group setting, for sure,

Nicole Lohse: 00:39:56

awesome. I can relate to that or this. This like. Bracing my spine gets a little more rigid. I feel my breath being held a little bit more. And there's a readiness, like a readiness to walk in, but to be in that kind of guardedness is, well, that's definitely my awareness too. Like, okay, but keep it separate. Keep it separate. Keep it separate.

Stacey: 00:40:18

Yeah, yeah. I would completely agree with that. Mine feels like in anticipation, and I can feel it the morning of so if I've committed to something, I can feel it when I awake. I can feel the energy and and then I always have to get curious, like, what is that that I'm feeling? Because it's not always, I mean, I, I know. I mean, I kind of know, oh yeah, you're getting ready to drop into a group, you know, situation, conversations, or even it's just, if it's just one on one, or even for our arrival today. And I just think where I'm at, what I used to do, it would feel like an armored up, a readiness. It would I would absolutely my perfectionism comes in with how I'm presented, and all of the little things that I can do to feel I not like unseen and yet presentable doesn't really make any sense. But and now to not go into that old patterning, I just stay aware with the feeling that's coming in and because I really want to arrive authentically, and part of my continual work is to speak authentically. And so I have it's an interesting experience of of continuing to learn and to show up and having the courage to do it with the healthy boundaries I did learn. One of my energetic practitioners that I was working with gave me something that was so profound, and it helped me so much, and it's just imagining. And I wanted to share this with your listeners, Nicole, in case this is something that that supports it, but imagining a invisible bubble around you and that you're welcoming in any energy and aligned connections that that are meant to be open to receive and for, for a fluidity of of energetic exchange, and any energy that is not aligned, that it just kind of bounces off that bubble. It's just like non attachment, not attachment to other, non attachment to you. It's not your fault. It's not that you You talk too much, or you're too much, or you're too all my own stories that's coming up right now, right? So the bubble has provided me, it a lot for me. It allows me to arrive less armored, more open, but yet protected, if that makes sense. So totally, yeah. And then I can use the additional practices that I have to bring in discernment where my energy and should go. But it's something that I've really found has worked. I've shared with clients and friends of mine, and they seem to be experiencing the same even if they're not empaths, even if they have heightened anxiety. You know, it's just something that allows a little bit, and it works even believe,

Nicole Lohse: 00:43:35

you know, yeah, yeah, no. I definitely see the benefit of that, and I want to play a little bit within these realms. So, Stacey, I want to invite you to notice the difference in between sharing what your knowledge versus sharing your experience in this moment. Okay, so we're going to do the dance for a moment. We're going to play more in this moment. And you have, I mean, you've done tons of work around this, and you have these brilliant strategies in place, and you have this incredible awareness. And I want to see if the three of us in this moment can even just play, play a little in what's alive in this moment, and without bringing in any strategies for a moment. Okay, so the bubble, I think, is really important, because I've got my own version of that that I'll speak to as well. And I want people to recognize the difference of like implementing a strategy, versus being in what's alive in this moment. Okay, so this idea of walking into the room, whether it's with a person, with a group, we all have this kind of bracing feeling come online, yeah. Can you all connect with it again? Can everyone connect with it again? Okay, so in that, I want to see in those listening as well, like just tune into. Like the idea of connecting with another human. It can be scary, depending on the history we have there and the patterning that's in place. I want to see what shows up at the idea of a little tiny bit less of this bracing and protection where we all expressed so for me, I think about like I feel a tightening in my ribs and in my spine, and I get a little taller, I want to see what shows up when I do that a tiny bit less. Am I making sense with that inquiry? So what, what I'm bringing us into here for a moment, is just the awareness of our physiology and how our physiology responds to a change in the environment. In this context, we're using walking into the idea of walking into a room and meeting up with a person or a group, right? Our physiology shifts because there's a new environment we're taking in, and this information that comes when we explore, if we were to move into that pattern a tiny bit less. Is there anything either of you notice in that Asia, do you want to go first?

Keisja: 00:46:05

I'm just trying to imagine, yeah, right, right before walking

Stacey: 00:46:09

too. I'm with you setting,

Nicole Lohse: 00:46:11

okay, so it might be hard to grasp. It's okay if it's hard to grasp. So

Keisja: 00:46:17

I'm trying to soften. That's kind of what I'm kind of imagining, is like going into a situation where I kind of know is going to be a lot, or I know it's going to be a lot of information. I know that this is going to be a lot emotionally, like taxing, or maybe I don't, and I'm kind of trying to sit in that space of where I'm very quite tight, or, like Nicole said tall and just kind of, okay, here we go, bracing. I'm trying to almost picture myself soften. I can't let it go. And I don't know if that's, yeah, maybe just a space of trying to embrace, hey, this is what it's gonna it is gonna be, what it's gonna be, you know, you don't have control over, you know, what information you're gonna be fed here, you know? So just trying to almost get into that space and my body of 10s and almost practicing, okay, now, soften, soften. It's going to be fine. You know, you don't have control over this, because I think there's that sense of that tightening or that that bracing for impact is like, I want control right now, maybe, if I maybe if I tighten, maybe if I brace, I'll be safe and I have control. But it's almost that softening comes from a place of you don't have control, and that's okay, you know, like, just go into this completely blind you're gonna think you're you're still safe. So I'm trying, in that moment, I was trying to, okay, tighten up, tighten up. Okay, let it go, which is a hard thing to do,

Nicole Lohse: 00:47:47

and this is where we can actually practice. We can actually inquire, instead of needing to let it go, Let's notice what its job is, right? So to me, when we notice ourselves moving into one of our patterns, or went into the protection in this context, which makes sense, because we're getting ready for so much information to come our way. It's kind of like, how can we notice that that bracing or that anticipation or that on this while also noticing it serves a purpose? It's, you know, anticipating a lot of information coming our way, or it's anticipating being bombarded with energy, or all this, yeah, however we might be receiving it, so we can play with softening it. But again, I want to come back to what I said at the beginning, how there's going to be lots of parts present. There's this shifting into the OOP, Okay, I gotta get ready. And then there's another part that might be like, Okay, no, soften. It maybe won't be that bad. Let's try to do this a different way. And I think that's a really cool way to kind of play here. And I'm gonna invite you to try something slightly different. For anyone who's listening to also notice, like, are you trying to change what you're experiencing? Or can we notice the intensity of the the preparing, the bracing, but also what happens at the idea of turning that down a little so for me, if I think about coming into a room with a little less of my readiness and my bracing, there's a sense of fear, there's a sense of vulnerability, there's a sense of it being too much. There's a sense of who am I without the bracing and the mask. So there's those flavors that are present that are different than the softening? Can you can you see the differences? Does that make sense? So the softening is almost like a strategy as well, the strategy of softening, or the strategy of grounding, or the strategy of preparing ourselves to walk into the room. And the reason why I'm kind of wanting to tease this apart. Part is because I think all those strategies are important to support us, and the more we heal and shift the fears and the and the things that are, how do I want to say this in this context? The more we kind of shift out of the fear. I'll just leave it at that, the more I have a stronger sense of self, and the less I'll need to soften ground, set up boundaries, set up bubbles. So it's kind of like I want to speak to this, because I think all the strategies that we'll speak to are important, and doing our healing, which both of you have expressed amazing experiences around, allows us to have a stronger sense of self and a stronger sense of where we end and where other people begin, and then we don't have to be as protected from the information that bubble you spoke to Stacy, it's always there, and the more we have a stronger sense of self, the stronger that bubble is to keep ourselves separate from each other, while also interconnected, right? So I'm being a little cheeky here in my my my teasing apart the difference between strategies versus like, well, what can we actually do to support ourselves to heal so we can really embrace being an empath without having to work so hard to be the empath, right, which both of you have already expressed to your doing through the healing you're doing. I'm just adding a love another little cheeky piece to it. Here, anything the two of you want to say to me being a little cheeky here,

Stacey: 00:51:48

I love what comes through for me, um, is just us, and pads are very good at strategizing. You know, as we're having this conversation, I'm just like, wow,

Nicole Lohse: 00:52:03

because he had to be right, because often what happens. So I'll just speak a little briefly, if you don't mind, Stacy to developmental trauma, right? From a developmental perspective, and it's not always trauma. Like Kesha you described, like you learned how to be the empath. It was enforced on you, like, be the empath, right? Be empathetic to people, but often in those earlier years, if we don't necessarily have a strong sense of self, we are so consumed by what everyone else is feeling, we don't know what's ours. We don't know what someone else is, and it's really challenging for us to know who am I? Where do I begin and other people end, or where do I end and other people begin, right? So this awareness of having a boundary is really challenging, hence why we have these brilliant strategies to put boundaries in place, to choose different relationships, because we always choose the relationships that we tend to, you know, get all entangled in because that's what's familiar. We make all these different choices and strategies to try to support us, but we're not healing that lack of clarity of who am I as self, because our boundary and sense of self was never established. So there's a good reason why so many strategies are in place for a lot of empaths, especially if it's rooted or if there was a lot of developmental trauma and in the journey of it all. So the strategies are there for a reason. Carry on.

Stacey: 00:53:37

Well, absolutely, I mean, and I think it helps us as I'm speaking to show up more authentically, or at least for myself, but yeah, going into the developmental trauma, and I'm happy to share just my own experience growing up. I grew in a household with addiction and with one family member, and it was not, yeah, I mean, I think I look and I do feel like when I get really quiet, I do feel that I was born with this, I don't, and maybe it was also learned through through this as well. I don't, I don't know, but, but I naturally took on feeling that it, you know, how do I read the room to bring in that regulation or so, and whether the substance was present or not, it also was just always walking on eggshells. And so it could be it was just the personality in itself was so big, and yet I remember my sister and I just both having protecting each other and showing up and also trying to be the good girls and Yeah, and so as I unpacked that through therapy and kind of working through that, there absolutely is a healing, but I think going back to it and you naming it and bringing it forward is a D. Were awareness for me to notice that there are still very much threads that are attached there for me, from my experience, from my childhood, and seeing how I bring it forward into the now and into the work that I do, and my reasoning, why is a depth of, you know, freedom, that it's not my responsibility for others, and yet I so deeply feel everyone in care, so deeply, you know, Kesha, like you were saying the caregiver. And so it's, it's really fascinating to kind of peel all that back. So, yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 00:55:33

yeah, and that's one of my intentions in this call, is to like, let's be aware of the patterns that exist that support us in our empathy, and how do we heal what's at the core of a lot of those patterns so that the empathy can be embraced in such a different way, where we don't need as much strategy to do so, yeah,

Keisja: 00:55:56

I just want to touch on if I If you don't mind what, what Stacey said, and that developmental trauma, or, you know, how maybe empaths are born, or people pleasers or our caregivers, you know, just hearing you speak, I also grew up in a home with addiction as well. So, you know, I think there's that commonality there of and I can't speak for you, Stacy, but just that, that's where my caregiver, or my empathy, I think, was born. Was that that walking on eggshells, that, you know, I need to make sure that this person's Okay, so it doesn't set off this person, which then set off this person. I'm going to be the peacemaker here, and I am going to shove myself into this space. I'm not going to be that, that source of dysregulation for anyone. I'm only going to be a source of regulation for these people. You know, everybody here is in fight or flight. How do I get everybody regulated, you know, and from a very, very young age, where we're still dealing with, how do I regulate oneself? How do I regulate myself, you know. So then there comes that, that pattern of, let me regulate everybody before myself, and when I get everybody else regulated, I can, I can feel safe, you know? And I think that's where that caregiver goes, goes in. And then that role starting at such a young age, which now I'm finding in my later 20s, and what I'm working on is, you know, I've always been a caregiver. I've always been the the emotional regulator for so many people. And then now looking back on past, looking at it in childhood, which then shows up in my platonic friendship, which then has now shown up in Roman romantic relationship, you know, always being the one to to help and to serve and to give and to care for others. You know, my friends saying, you know, if you have any problems, if you have any issues, if you need someone to lean on, you go to Caja, right? That being such a huge part of, you know, and I don't know if you can relate to this my identity. So now going into my later 20s and and looking at my relational pattern, looking at how this has shown up, taking accountability for that, and realizing, Oh, I'm now going to go through a little bit of an identity crisis here. Because if I'm not a giver, if I'm not a regulator, if I'm not this emotional space to such an extent for so many people, who am I? What am I, if not an empath? What am I? You know? So that's been the next phase of the journey of of the struggle, of the challenges, getting to know oneself and getting to know that that's a part of me that isn't me, though, that is not all I offer, even though I've offered it my whole life, and that's been the basis of my identity. It can be a part of you, you know, so a little bit of an identity crisis as I move into this next phase right of that healing journey.

Nicole Lohse: 00:59:04

Yeah, great. Beautifully said. Beautifully

Stacey: 00:59:08

said, Keisha, thank you for sharing. And lots of emotions come through for me and just

Keisja: 00:59:19

yeah, a lot in common, you know, I think with empaths, could just, we could all get together and, you know, I get that, I understand. I've been there. Yeah, right. So

Stacey: 00:59:31

absolutely, and with the addiction, you know, with the caregivers, and also arriving at where you're at, and just the way you expressed and shared your words were really nourishing. So thank you.

Nicole Lohse: 00:59:46

Yeah, beautiful. I'm sure many listening will also be able to relate. And what I want to come back to for a moment is again the. This journey that we make on an ongoing basis with our patterns, because that's where I come. This is how I love to approach things of like what you both named is really the the gifts that your survival patterns have allowed you to both embrace the empath but survive some really challenging situations. So the way I like to see the thread that both of you described so beautifully is there's something that happens in your environment that sends off some alarm bells you, as an empath are really sensitive to those messages, and the alarm bells go off, and then all three of us experience that tightening that like, whoa, okay, get ready. And then if we probably would have been, continue to explore, that's when the next patterns unfold, the people pleasing, the you know, I'm walking on eggshells, but how do I need to be? What do I need to do to down regulate everyone, to support the dynamics that are at play? Right? Those are the later patterns that were developed and formed as a result of those alarm bells going off, you sensing the danger, and then having this brilliant ability to not only read the room, but can impact the flavor of the room or what was going on in the room. And this is where I love to really explore the patterning and the way our physiology changes, the way we energetically shift, the way we really transform who we are, the more we can tease all that apart, the more we can heal that fear that you experienced so long ago when your environment was unstable, and when that fear shifts and transforms and you're no longer perceiving the environment as something you always have to be on and ready for, then the empathy can show up in such a more expansive way, which to me, I'm really seeing in the two of you, right? It's like the healing is happening, which is allowing you to really embrace the get gift of being the empath and having it not so rooted in survival. It's really rooted in maintaining more of a sense of, Oh, who am I now if I'm not the person that's just constantly navigating what's happening in the room. So I'm celebrating you both in this journey that you've been on and will continue, probably to be on for the rest of your life. And and what I want to invite is, how do you get curious about what happened? What happens before the bracing? Because that's that indicator that your system, your nervous system, is sensing there's some sort of threat here, and this is where it happens so quickly, where the antennas are out and sensing what's happening, there's likely a glimpse of fear, and then move into the patterns that I you know, we've you've named a number of different patterns, and I want to invite those listening consider reflecting on these patterns that you have and work towards moving backwards, because what's at the core of them is that moment where there's such terror, such fear, that it makes sense that you shuttle that down and instead navigated life in whatever patterns you needed to navigate. And when you work through that that piece, it really allows us to land back into that sense of safety, that sense of connection, that sense of self that allows us to really embrace who we are in a different way, even if who we are is unknown because it's so different than who we were when we were showing up in these other ways. Yeah. So another way to work with

Stacey: 01:03:59

it. I love it, yeah, just invites more curiosity for me and to be more instead of it's almost for me the way I receive it, instead of being more attuned with, well, you're an empath now, brace and how are you going to do it? It's what you've opened up for me. Nicole is like just a deeper portal within, like a deeper curiosity within. So when it arrives to work backwards versus just gearing up and preparing and using all the tools and modalities. Not that those aren't there, but I have not this is a space that's unfamiliar to me and Keisha, as you mentioned so beautifully, about the identity crisis, you know, kind of like, who am I now? And I so deeply, deeply resonate with that. Yeah, because. It is something that is so innate for us, and yet it's not all of us, right? It's not all of our purpose and reason and why. So how do we blend it? But thank you, Nicole, because I will absolutely take that backwards piece to to arrive there. I feel that's another missing puzzle piece to add into my my healing operations. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:05:30

And that's where, again, I want to name the strategies are important, you know, to ground to create the bubble to how all of those are important, and I'm just inviting you into another way to explore how, how do you heal, to create more clarity on Who am I really? Who am I when I'm just embracing my sense of self, instead of creating a boundary, to try to keep myself separate from everyone else, to try to find out who I am. Yeah, we did at the beginning say we were going to talk about strategies, and I was going to guide us through something. But I also feel like what we've talked about is enough. Is there anything else either of you want to add? I actually have a question quickly. Can you see the difference now around needing strategies versus needing less strategies? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we've gotten to the core of it a lot more like even us naming it and creating space for this quick blip of where there's probably fear and terror. Even us creating naming it, creating space for it already has changed your perspective and understanding of yourself, right? And now there's less strategy, because there's more of an honoring or holding space for that experience that exists within you.

Keisja: 01:07:08

Absolutely, I feel like is kind of a funny. I don't know if I want to say it's funny. Funny is lack of lack of better words. How? You know, as empaths, we we hold space so freely for other people. So here's a strategy where it's really, I guess, coming home to yourself and, okay, it's my turn. You know, I'm gonna hold space for myself. Here,

Nicole Lohse: 01:07:35

beautiful. Oh, I love that. You caught that. Yeah?

Keisja: 01:07:39

What a Yeah. So good, full circle moment,

Unknown: 01:07:43

absolutely, yeah,

Keisja: 01:07:45

it's our turn. It's

Nicole Lohse: 01:07:47

funny because one of my principles is, like, you're already whole. How do we become the empathic witness for ourselves in the places where we're stuck in that fear and that terror and that survival, right? So yeah, and to me, the more we can do that for ourselves. That's what really supports the deep healing to happen. And then as an empath, to do that from this place for other people as well. That's when we maintain that sense of self. When we're not doing it out of the survival pattern, we're doing it out of the gift.

Stacey: 01:08:24

So good, yeah.

Nicole Lohse: 01:08:25

Oh, thank you so much for for I feel like we could talk for another hour or so. Oh, yeah. But it also feels like something is percolating with this, you know, this piece coming forward and and this, this, yeah, I want to give some space for that, so hopefully those listening also have a different ability to reflect on their own relationships with empathy. And thank you so much to the two of you for coming on to share the depths of the gift and the challenges that come with being an empath.

Stacey: 01:09:04

Yeah, thank you for the invitation and opening up the conversation for all to tune in. I'm so grateful and just what we received from the both of you today, so beautiful. Yeah,

Nicole Lohse: 01:09:23

so good, wonderful. Thank you. Thank you.